An attempt to shed some new light on JTR

[jasan]

Hello to all!

This is my first post.
Be warned, I rarely write in English, so my grammar is terrible even at the best of times.
Please keep that in mind.

I've been reading (searching) this forum for a past few weeks,
but could not find anything enough similar to what I have to say.
I beg to be corrected if there is such a post and I apologize in advance.

I'm intrigued by JTR for quite some time, it's fascinating subject.
So, this is my take on mystery that keeps our minds reeling.
I finally collected my thoughts in one place and
I hope you will find some value in it.

Here are my premises:
I focused my effort mainly on victims, doctors, timeline and crime scene.
Why? They lie less. (except timeline)
I assume that he evolved from Tabram to Eddowes.
Why? I see progress in brutality and surgical competence with each case.
I assume that Nichols is a failure.
Why? He started with abdomen, but couldn't finish it for some reason.
I discarded Stride from consideration.
Why? It's political, IMHO. Someone is trying to piggyback on JTR.
Also the place is an open invitation to hang oneself.
Also two murders in one night are one too much. Could be wrong, though.
For now being I discarded MJK too. I went through it once-twice, in speedy fashion.
Why? There is little time pressure on him so he went berserk.
It's a total mess, order of his actions can be anything,
explosion of possibility and interpretations.
I assume that there is more victims we don't know anything about.
Therefore, I assume Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and MJK are his crown jewels to show off.

This below is my analysis in some tree form.
Hope it's more or less self-explanatory
Most observations are widely known, but I've included them for completeness.
Legend:
~xx% assessment of probability
:: key point
???? answer could be important
!? it could be true, but with a tendency towards the truth

:: IMHO; he is too lucky, too skilled, too time aware and too quick, hence supervillain.
Therefore, we need to add things that will help him become exactly as superior as he was.
For example, we can give him an epilepsy or a Norwegian Blue or a pile of money.
Clearly, only money can improve his overall abilities.
:: A lots of improvement has been made in period between Nichols and Eddowes (his anatomical knowledge)
How many woman (girls) are missing and never found ????
Also dead woman bodies can be found in medical schools or in mortuary
or can be bought or can be dug up.

JTR is:

strong
self confident and persistent: after Nichols he didn't give up

under tight time pressure and police watch, he delivers

:: 1. he wants a spectacle (news is the main channel for the hype)

journalist (any rank in company)
actor (high vanity level in some), failed actor (even better)
similar to a lesser extent with writer, politician

working man ~30%

he seems to have a plenty of free time (planning, preparation, hunting, escape, tidy up)

literate
skilled with the knife (not initially)
taller then 5'1" ~80%
left-handed ~70%, ambidextrous (this is quite rare !?)
average looking, tries to be unremarkable

or masked ~70%

good eyesight, age: <35 ~70% >50 ~10%
flexible, quick: kneels, moves around, age: <35 ~70% >50 ~10%
excellent knowledge of area and local culture
he is not poor ~80%
:: he knows police officers beats ~80%
:: he has a watch ~70%
victims are woman (of Whitechapel) because they are

numerous at night, accessible, easy to lure
weak and small, causes greater public outcry, fear and interest ~90%

he was in a hurry to kill Eddowes ~70%
kidney is just for the news, a spectacle ~80%

it is a small organ, easy to handle and parcel
associated with culinary tradition

in his formative years he suffers greatly from woman (mother, foster m., neighbor, etc.) ~30%
of all of them, Eddowes looks the most like this dominant woman

or she knows him (cuts on eyes and nose) ~80%

dominant woman is dead or without control on him

chronic illness, jail, asylum, abroad, etc. ~30%

he had no father figure in his formative years to protect him ~30%
motive; spectacle ~70% (and, or) dominant woman issue ~30%
if he is looking just for a spectacle then

all above about dominant woman and father is probably totally wrong
all macabre deeds can only be for drama, except for Eddowes eyes and nose ~95%

:: sub motive; to make a fool of police force (and, or) discredit (replace) some (high) ranking official

see 1. with a grudge

active policeman (any rank) with a grudge, former policeman (even better)
is it possible to obtain information about such cases ????

:: sub motive; financial gain (Follow the money) it could be paired with police motive above

see 1.
2. he can also be a hired man

(and, or) forced to obedience by blackmail, debt or fear

or misguided and exploited

:: if he has a carriage (with the cabin ~80%)

it wouldn't be necessary to park exactly at crime site in every case !?
it helps with the speed
much bigger radius of action
hiding, waiting, clothing change, storage place
weather shelter
attracting of woman
place for crime
minimal blood problem
place to clean up himself
escape from the site
extra light in a cabin
transport to or from secondary location
kidnapping of accidental witness (missing woman (man), how many ????)

:: if there were 2 of them, the binding could be based on

master and servant ~60%

for servant see 2.

family, friendship or some other form of strong loyalty (army service (wars)) ~40%

with carriage - see previous section (some actions would be even easier)

driver

splitting after crime !?

alarming

disturbance of others (killing or inflicting harm, distracting and similar)

extra light on a scene

one of them could be

skilled with the knife

weak, old, stupid, misguided, etc. (any combination of traits)

After the expose from above, these are some of the questions that bother me the most.
Who (of known suspects) is in possession or can borrow or rent or inherit a carriage or similar?
Same type of question as above but about second house, flat, barn, storage facility, etc.?
How unusual was to drive vehicle at wee hours?
Which news company earned the most from the hype?

Thanks for an attention!

[Richard Patterson]

Hello to all!

This is my first post.
Be warned, I rarely write in English, so my grammar is terrible even at the best of times.
Please keep that in mind.

I've been reading (searching) this forum for a past few weeks,
but could not find anything enough similar to what I have to say.
I beg to be corrected if there is such a post and I apologize in advance.

I'm intrigued by JTR for quite some time, it's fascinating subject.
So, this is my take on mystery that keeps our minds reeling.
I finally collected my thoughts in one place and
I hope you will find some value in it.

Here are my premises:
I focused my effort mainly on victims, doctors, timeline and crime scene.
Why? They lie less. (except timeline)
I assume that he evolved from Tabram to Eddowes.
Why? I see progress in brutality and surgical competence with each case.
I assume that Nichols is a failure.
Why? He started with abdomen, but couldn't finish it for some reason.
I discarded Stride from consideration.
Why? It's political, IMHO. Someone is trying to piggyback on JTR.
Also the place is an open invitation to hang oneself.
Also two murders in one night are one too much. Could be wrong, though.
For now being I discarded MJK too. I went through it once-twice, in speedy fashion.
Why? There is little time pressure on him so he went berserk.
It's a total mess, order of his actions can be anything,
explosion of possibility and interpretations.
I assume that there is more victims we don't know anything about.
Therefore, I assume Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and MJK are his crown jewels to show off.

This below is my analysis in some tree form.
Hope it's more or less self-explanatory
Most observations are widely known, but I've included them for completeness.
Legend:
~xx% assessment of probability
:: key point
???? answer could be important
!? it could be true, but with a tendency towards the truth

:: IMHO; he is too lucky, too skilled, too time aware and too quick, hence supervillain.
Therefore, we need to add things that will help him become exactly as superior as he was.
For example, we can give him an epilepsy or a Norwegian Blue or a pile of money.
Clearly, only money can improve his overall abilities.
:: A lots of improvement has been made in period between Nichols and Eddowes (his anatomical knowledge)
How many woman (girls) are missing and never found ????
Also dead woman bodies can be found in medical schools or in mortuary
or can be bought or can be dug up.

JTR is:

strong
self confident and persistent: after Nichols he didn't give up

under tight time pressure and police watch, he delivers

:: 1. he wants a spectacle (news is the main channel for the hype)

journalist (any rank in company)
actor (high vanity level in some), failed actor (even better)
similar to a lesser extent with writer, politician

working man ~30%

he seems to have a plenty of free time (planning, preparation, hunting, escape, tidy up)

literate
skilled with the knife (not initially)
taller then 5'1" ~80%
left-handed ~70%, ambidextrous (this is quite rare !?)
average looking, tries to be unremarkable

or masked ~70%

good eyesight, age: <35 ~70% >50 ~10%
flexible, quick: kneels, moves around, age: <35 ~70% >50 ~10%
excellent knowledge of area and local culture
he is not poor ~80%
:: he knows police officers beats ~80%
:: he has a watch ~70%
victims are woman (of Whitechapel) because they are

numerous at night, accessible, easy to lure
weak and small, causes greater public outcry, fear and interest ~90%

he was in a hurry to kill Eddowes ~70%
kidney is just for the news, a spectacle ~80%

it is a small organ, easy to handle and parcel
associated with culinary tradition

in his formative years he suffers greatly from woman (mother, foster m., neighbor, etc.) ~30%
of all of them, Eddowes looks the most like this dominant woman

or she knows him (cuts on eyes and nose) ~80%

dominant woman is dead or without control on him

chronic illness, jail, asylum, abroad, etc. ~30%

he had no father figure in his formative years to protect him ~30%
motive; spectacle ~70% (and, or) dominant woman issue ~30%
if he is looking just for a spectacle then

all above about dominant woman and father is probably totally wrong
all macabre deeds can only be for drama, except for Eddowes eyes and nose ~95%

:: sub motive; to make a fool of police force (and, or) discredit (replace) some (high) ranking official

see 1. with a grudge

active policeman (any rank) with a grudge, former policeman (even better)
is it possible to obtain information about such cases ????

:: sub motive; financial gain (Follow the money) it could be paired with police motive above

see 1.
2. he can also be a hired man

(and, or) forced to obedience by blackmail, debt or fear

or misguided and exploited

:: if he has a carriage (with the cabin ~80%)

it wouldn't be necessary to park exactly at crime site in every case !?
it helps with the speed
much bigger radius of action
hiding, waiting, clothing change, storage place
weather shelter
attracting of woman
place for crime
minimal blood problem
place to clean up himself
escape from the site
extra light in a cabin
transport to or from secondary location
kidnapping of accidental witness (missing woman (man), how many ????)

:: if there were 2 of them, the binding could be based on

master and servant ~60%

for servant see 2.

family, friendship or some other form of strong loyalty (army service (wars)) ~40%

with carriage - see previous section (some actions would be even easier)

driver

splitting after crime !?

alarming

disturbance of others (killing or inflicting harm, distracting and similar)

extra light on a scene

one of them could be

skilled with the knife

weak, old, stupid, misguided, etc. (any combination of traits)

After the expose from above, these are some of the questions that bother me the most.
Who (of known suspects) is in possession or can borrow or rent or inherit a carriage or similar?
Same type of question as above but about second house, flat, barn, storage facility, etc.?
How unusual was to drive vehicle at wee hours?
Which news company earned the most from the hype?

Thanks for an attention!

Welcome aboard — and don’t apologise for your English, your analysis is thoughtful and clear. You’ve raised many of the same angles professional profilers and modern criminologists have weighed: surgical learning curve, craving for spectacle, a Jekyll/Hyde double life, and the need for free time and familiarity with the city’s pulse.

Where Francis Thompson enters the frame is that, unlike the “maybe this, maybe that” uncertainty around most named suspects, he actually matches many of the precise filters you’ve listed:

• Medical progress: He trained under Dreschfeld at Owens College, dissecting cadavers. That accounts for the “learning curve” from clumsy abdomen attempt to precise organ removal.
• Spectacle & drama: Thompson wasn’t a dock labourer or slaughterman — he was a writer. His manuscripts show obsession with blood, wombs, and murder as theatre. He understood spectacle, and lived for it.
• Jekyll/Hyde split: Published poems like In No Strange Land show the angelic mystic, but unpublished drafts are full of violence against women. That polarity is exactly the kind of hidden duality you’re describing.
• Time and place: In 1888 he was living rough in Spitalfields and Limehouse refuges, literally among the women the Ripper targeted. By November, as the murders cease, he enters the Priory for psychiatric confinement.
• Psychological fracture: At the same moment he gave up laudanum, he endured withdrawal symptoms that heightened sex drive, agitation, and hallucinations. Dr. Thomas Bond’s profile of the Ripper (“erotic mania, periodical outbursts”) could have been written about him

You asked, “Who had access to a carriage?” Thompson was minding cab horses in Kensington during this same period. He wasn’t wealthy, but he was around horses and cabs nightly — a detail that maps neatly onto your speculation.

The strength of Thompson as a candidate isn’t that he ticks one or two speculative boxes — it’s that he converges on them across medicine, psychology, geography, and probability. When you run the numbers on Smith’s five-point suspect profile, the odds of another man in London coincidentally matching all of it are essentially nil.

So your instincts are sound: if you’re looking for someone who fuses surgical skill, theatrical impulse, and double-sided persona, Thompson deserves to be taken seriously.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Well what a surprise. Another opportunity for Richard to post his bullet point list again. Unable to respond to questions or points though. I wonder why?

[jasan]

Welcome aboard — and don’t apologise for your English, your analysis is thoughtful and clear. You’ve raised many of the same angles professional profilers and modern criminologists have weighed: surgical learning curve, craving for spectacle, a Jekyll/Hyde double life, and the need for free time and familiarity with the city’s pulse.

Where Francis Thompson enters the frame is that, unlike the “maybe this, maybe that” uncertainty around most named suspects, he actually matches many of the precise filters you’ve listed:

• Medical progress: He trained under Dreschfeld at Owens College, dissecting cadavers. That accounts for the “learning curve” from clumsy abdomen attempt to precise organ removal.
• Spectacle & drama: Thompson wasn’t a dock labourer or slaughterman — he was a writer. His manuscripts show obsession with blood, wombs, and murder as theatre. He understood spectacle, and lived for it.
• Jekyll/Hyde split: Published poems like In No Strange Land show the angelic mystic, but unpublished drafts are full of violence against women. That polarity is exactly the kind of hidden duality you’re describing.
• Time and place: In 1888 he was living rough in Spitalfields and Limehouse refuges, literally among the women the Ripper targeted. By November, as the murders cease, he enters the Priory for psychiatric confinement.
• Psychological fracture: At the same moment he gave up laudanum, he endured withdrawal symptoms that heightened sex drive, agitation, and hallucinations. Dr. Thomas Bond’s profile of the Ripper (“erotic mania, periodical outbursts”) could have been written about him

You asked, “Who had access to a carriage?” Thompson was minding cab horses in Kensington during this same period. He wasn’t wealthy, but he was around horses and cabs nightly — a detail that maps neatly onto your speculation.

The strength of Thompson as a candidate isn’t that he ticks one or two speculative boxes — it’s that he converges on them across medicine, psychology, geography, and probability. When you run the numbers on Smith’s five-point suspect profile, the odds of another man in London coincidentally matching all of it are essentially nil.

So your instincts are sound: if you’re looking for someone who fuses surgical skill, theatrical impulse, and double-sided persona, Thompson deserves to be taken seriously.

Sorry for my late reply, but life got in the way.
Thank you for the warm welcome and for answering on one of my questions (about carriage).

In regard to a man you are actively promote, I will list a few problematic traits:
1. He is frail.

If they were 2 (or more) this isn't so important. Otherwise it's critical.

2. He is an addict.

As I said before my JTR (one or a team) in his late form (Eddowes) is

methodical, discipline and goal oriented.

Even if we assume an addiction can be used as a lever, who in his right mind will risk life

with an addict as accomplice. Maybe if his skills are so essential and you have means to

silence him afterwards.

If he is alone, his addiction interferes in a bad way with everything his doing (except writing).

So he would wait for a one good shot when he feels euphoric and then he will act. Too streeeetchy for me.

3. Surgical competency. This is crucial for me.

Have you seen this Herlock's post?

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...079#post860079

To summarize IMHO, if he isn't frail and if he can control his addiction and if he rejuvenated
his vigor for surgical accomplishments, then he is a great candidate.

BTW, is there a list of morticians in the London at that time?

[Fiver]

How many woman (girls) are missing and never found ????

The Ripper made no attempt to hide his victim's bodies, so tracing missing persons seems unlikely to give us other Ripper victims. OTOH, failed assaults with a knife could be failed attempts by the Ripper.

OTOH, missing persons might be a way of identifying some of the Torso Killer's victims.

he seems to have a plenty of free time (planning, preparation, hunting, escape, tidy up)

All of the murders took place between 12:45am and 5:30am. That leaves some possibilities.
* The Ripper was unemployed or irregularly employed and usually didn't have to get up in the morning to go to work.
* The Ripper was so well off that he didn't have to work or could set his own hours.
* The Ripper had a job that usually ended the shift around midnight to 12:30am. That includes the pubs.

literate

We don't know which, if any of the letters are real, so the Ripper might have been illiterate.

All speculation on motive is just that - speculation. We can tell there was a strong emotional content to his actions, but that could be lust, rage, disgust, revenge, a feeling of power, or something else.

: if he has a carriage (with the cabin ~80%)

None of the victims bodies were moved by the killer. No carriages were seen nearby. We can rule out the Ripper using carriage.

[emdes2]

Hello to all!

This is my first post.
Be warned, I rarely write in English, so my grammar is terrible even at the best of times.
Please keep that in mind.

I've been reading (searching) this forum for a past few weeks,
but could not find anything enough similar to what I have to say.
I beg to be corrected if there is such a post and I apologize in advance.

I'm intrigued by JTR for quite some time, it's fascinating subject.
So, this is my take on mystery that keeps our minds reeling.
I finally collected my thoughts in one place and
I hope you will find some value in it.

Here are my premises:
I focused my effort mainly on victims, doctors, timeline and crime scene.
Why? They lie less. (except timeline)
I assume that he evolved from Tabram to Eddowes.
Why? I see progress in brutality and surgical competence with each case.
I assume that Nichols is a failure.
Why? He started with abdomen, but couldn't finish it for some reason.
I discarded Stride from consideration.
Why? It's political, IMHO. Someone is trying to piggyback on JTR.
Also the place is an open invitation to hang oneself.
Also two murders in one night are one too much. Could be wrong, though.
For now being I discarded MJK too. I went through it once-twice, in speedy fashion.
Why? There is little time pressure on him so he went berserk.
It's a total mess, order of his actions can be anything,
explosion of possibility and interpretations.
I assume that there is more victims we don't know anything about.
Therefore, I assume Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and MJK are his crown jewels to show off.

This below is my analysis in some tree form.
Hope it's more or less self-explanatory
Most observations are widely known, but I've included them for completeness.
Legend:
~xx% assessment of probability
:: key point
???? answer could be important
!? it could be true, but with a tendency towards the truth

:: IMHO; he is too lucky, too skilled, too time aware and too quick, hence supervillain.
Therefore, we need to add things that will help him become exactly as superior as he was.
For example, we can give him an epilepsy or a Norwegian Blue or a pile of money.
Clearly, only money can improve his overall abilities.
:: A lots of improvement has been made in period between Nichols and Eddowes (his anatomical knowledge)
How many woman (girls) are missing and never found ????
Also dead woman bodies can be found in medical schools or in mortuary
or can be bought or can be dug up.

JTR is:

strong
self confident and persistent: after Nichols he didn't give up

under tight time pressure and police watch, he delivers

:: 1. he wants a spectacle (news is the main channel for the hype)

journalist (any rank in company)
actor (high vanity level in some), failed actor (even better)
similar to a lesser extent with writer, politician

working man ~30%

he seems to have a plenty of free time (planning, preparation, hunting, escape, tidy up)

literate
skilled with the knife (not initially)
taller then 5'1" ~80%
left-handed ~70%, ambidextrous (this is quite rare !?)
average looking, tries to be unremarkable

or masked ~70%

good eyesight, age: <35 ~70% >50 ~10%
flexible, quick: kneels, moves around, age: <35 ~70% >50 ~10%
excellent knowledge of area and local culture
he is not poor ~80%
:: he knows police officers beats ~80%
:: he has a watch ~70%
victims are woman (of Whitechapel) because they are

numerous at night, accessible, easy to lure
weak and small, causes greater public outcry, fear and interest ~90%

he was in a hurry to kill Eddowes ~70%
kidney is just for the news, a spectacle ~80%

it is a small organ, easy to handle and parcel
associated with culinary tradition

in his formative years he suffers greatly from woman (mother, foster m., neighbor, etc.) ~30%
of all of them, Eddowes looks the most like this dominant woman

or she knows him (cuts on eyes and nose) ~80%

dominant woman is dead or without control on him

chronic illness, jail, asylum, abroad, etc. ~30%

he had no father figure in his formative years to protect him ~30%
motive; spectacle ~70% (and, or) dominant woman issue ~30%
if he is looking just for a spectacle then

all above about dominant woman and father is probably totally wrong
all macabre deeds can only be for drama, except for Eddowes eyes and nose ~95%

:: sub motive; to make a fool of police force (and, or) discredit (replace) some (high) ranking official

see 1. with a grudge

active policeman (any rank) with a grudge, former policeman (even better)
is it possible to obtain information about such cases ????

:: sub motive; financial gain (Follow the money) it could be paired with police motive above

see 1.
2. he can also be a hired man

(and, or) forced to obedience by blackmail, debt or fear

or misguided and exploited

:: if he has a carriage (with the cabin ~80%)

it wouldn't be necessary to park exactly at crime site in every case !?
it helps with the speed
much bigger radius of action
hiding, waiting, clothing change, storage place
weather shelter
attracting of woman
place for crime
minimal blood problem
place to clean up himself
escape from the site
extra light in a cabin
transport to or from secondary location
kidnapping of accidental witness (missing woman (man), how many ????)

:: if there were 2 of them, the binding could be based on

master and servant ~60%

for servant see 2.

family, friendship or some other form of strong loyalty (army service (wars)) ~40%

with carriage - see previous section (some actions would be even easier)

driver

splitting after crime !?

alarming

disturbance of others (killing or inflicting harm, distracting and similar)

extra light on a scene

one of them could be

skilled with the knife

weak, old, stupid, misguided, etc. (any combination of traits)

After the expose from above, these are some of the questions that bother me the most.
Who (of known suspects) is in possession or can borrow or rent or inherit a carriage or similar?
Same type of question as above but about second house, flat, barn, storage facility, etc.?
How unusual was to drive vehicle at wee hours?
Which news company earned the most from the hype?

Thanks for an attention!

I think this is a false assumption. You see it a lot in movies too. People seem to think that a horse & carriage was just like a car in a modern city. But it's not! A carriage would draw unwanted attention. And it would drastically slow you down. You move much faster (and free-er) on foot. I'm as good as 100% sure that JTR did not have a carriage.

[Doctored Whatsit]

Yes, absolutely no likelihood of the use of a carriage. They were noisy, and JtR was virtually silent. There could not have been a carriage in Buck's Row or Berner Street, for example, as everyone would have heard it even if they didn't see it.