The FBI Profile of Jack the Ripper & it's usefulness

[Fisherman]

With respect, Christer, it is a good comparison, but obviously, we once again disagree.

Itīs nicer to agree, actually. But I canīt bring myself to do so here. Hopefully next time!

The best,
Fisherman

[Errata]

That was about it, I think. It was added on to a not very large Times article of the 13:th, mainly focusing on the ongoing Jackson investigation. Whether it was mentioned in any more papers, I donīt know.

The best,
Fisherman

Making it the first and last fetus-in-a-pickle-jar-floating-down-the-Thames not to rate screaming headlines.

I mean, I know I live in a red state, but about a decade ago we had screaming headlines over a fetus found in a toilet that was known for a fact to have been miscarried, and it seemed like the whole world was screaming for the head of what turned out to be a 12 year old girl for leaving it there. And she didn't even kill it.

So the idea that this little art display that was apparently the twisted stepchild of Dali and Mappelthorpe only gets a buried mention in the papers? That's weird to me. I would think that they were trying to not upset the ladyfolk, except the ladyfolk didn't typically read the papers, and that would be the first time in the history of ever that they DIDN'T want to scare the ladyfolk.

[Fisherman]

Making it the first and last fetus-in-a-pickle-jar-floating-down-the-Thames not to rate screaming headlines.

I mean, I know I live in a red state, but about a decade ago we had screaming headlines over a fetus found in a toilet that was known for a fact to have been miscarried, and it seemed like the whole world was screaming for the head of what turned out to be a 12 year old girl for leaving it there. And she didn't even kill it.

So the idea that this little art display that was apparently the twisted stepchild of Dali and Mappelthorpe only gets a buried mention in the papers? That's weird to me. I would think that they were trying to not upset the ladyfolk, except the ladyfolk didn't typically read the papers, and that would be the first time in the history of ever that they DIDN'T want to scare the ladyfolk.

Thatīs a point, I guess. But actually, the more morbid bits and pieces that were floated down the Thames back then rarely got much of a mentioning, be it a leg, and arm or a torso. The whole business of selling papers by means of mutilated people accelerated very much with the Whitechapel murders. Before that, nothing much was written about these kinds of things.

In a sense, they could have wanted not to scare the ladyfolk, but on the whole it was more of a general stance, I think. And the more I ponder it, the more sound it seems to me, in our times when many foul deeds are set in motion by the kind of media overexploitation we afford people who should perhaps instead have been denied any space at all in tv tableaus and newspapers.

There I go, all moralizing ...

The best,
Fisherman

[curious4]

A fetus in a sealed pickle jar was found by a Thames police boat officer on, I believe, the 12 of June 1889. Itīs mentioned in Michael Gordons' Torso killer book.

The best,
Fisherman

The science room of my old school was "decorated" with shelves full of pickled fetuses. As my school dated back to the Victorian era, I can only surmise that they were used as teaching aids! Spent most of my time trying not to look. I was a sensitive child ;-).

Best wishes,
C4

[Fisherman]

The science room of my old school was "decorated" with shelves full of pickled fetuses. As my school dated back to the Victorian era, I can only surmise that they were used as teaching aids! Spent most of my time trying not to look. I was a sensitive child ;-).

Best wishes,
C4

Shelves full of ... what? Pickled fetuses? Surely not human fetuses? Does British education differ that much from Swedish?

The best,
Fisherman

[curious4]

Shelves full of ... what? Pickled fetuses? Surely not human fetuses? Does British education differ that much from Swedish?

The best,
Fisherman

It was some time ago, but yes, human and in all stages of development. Don't think they were ever used in my time, though. Just sat there on the shelves. It was a very progressive school for young ladies. That my headmistress or the previous one was JTR wouldn't have surprised me at all. We lived in terror of them!

Honestly, it's true! Tumblety would have felt quite at home.

Best wishes
C4

[RockySullivan]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pickled_punks

[Fisherman]

It was some time ago, but yes, human and in all stages of development. Don't think they were ever used in my time, though. Just sat there on the shelves. It was a very progressive school for young ladies. That my headmistress or the previous one was JTR wouldn't have surprised me at all. We lived in terror of them!

Honestly, it's true! Tumblety would have felt quite at home.

Best wishes
C4

Yikes! Thatīs creepy, to say the least. And grossly disrespectful of the ones in the jars too, I would say.

Thanks for sharing. Not that I couldnīt have done without it, but then I suspect that goes for you too!

All the best,
Fisherman

[curious4]

Sharing

Hello Fisherman,

Yes it wasn't something you wanted to look at exactly. My point being that the Victorians did a lot of pickling - from exotic animals upwards, so finding a pickled fetus in the Thames wasn't that much of a big thing. Before the days of X-rays and scans it was a way to find out what things looked like. And disrespectful, yes, perhaps, from a modern perspective, but I think it was seen as making a contribution to science. The fetuses were (presumably) from miscarriages and people were less sentimental then. Dickens talks of seeing a neighbour's sextuplets laid out on a dresser and looking like pigs' trotters to his childish eyes.

Best wishes
C4

[Fisherman]

Hello Fisherman,

Yes it wasn't something you wanted to look at exactly. My point being that the Victorians did a lot of pickling - from exotic animals upwards, so finding a pickled fetus in the Thames wasn't that much of a big thing. Before the days of X-rays and scans it was a way to find out what things looked like. And disrespectful, yes, perhaps, from a modern perspective, but I think it was seen as making a contribution to science. The fetuses were (presumably) from miscarriages and people were less sentimental then. Dickens talks of seeing a neighbour's sextuplets laid out on a dresser and looking like pigs' trotters to his childish eyes.

Best wishes
C4

Yes, you will be very much on the money here, curious4 - it was an era of freak shows and such things and with a large interest in the creations of nature, so one should not be too put off by what would have been the equivalent of todays computerized school lessons. But still ...!

Just like you say, this would have been why it was not very much covered in the press - and one must accept that the fetus in question (the one floating in the Thames, that is) may have come from a school shelve!

Thanks for the somewhat icky lesson, anyhow!

The best,
Fisherman

[RockySullivan]

Perhaps I misread the summary of Liz Jackson case but wasn't another baby found wrapped in cloth on land tjat was believed to be the missing baby?

[RockySullivan]

At the inquest for the Whitehall torso the worker from the building says it would be very hard for someone who doesn't work in the building to have access to where the torso was dumped. How did the killer get down in to the vaults? Was he a worker in the building? It seems there is some believe that the torso was intended to be buried like the limb had been and the vault was only a temporary hiding place. What do you think...how could the ripper gain access to the vaults? The carpenter said he kept his tools in the vault because it was safer than the lockers. This means no one would be able to sneak in. Kind of sounds like the torso killer may have worked in the building? It was very dark in the vault and the carpenter was down in the vault a few times...he noticed the parcel but did not realize it was a torso. Hm suspicious. He felt that was the safest place to keep his tools...that meant very few people had access to the vault.

http://www.casebook.org/official_documents/inquests/inquest_whitehall.html

[Errata]

Yes, you will be very much on the money here, curious4 - it was an era of freak shows and such things and with a large interest in the creations of nature, so one should not be too put off by what would have been the equivalent of todays computerized school lessons. But still ...!

Just like you say, this would have been why it was not very much covered in the press - and one must accept that the fetus in question (the one floating in the Thames, that is) may have come from a school shelve!

Thanks for the somewhat icky lesson, anyhow!

The best,
Fisherman

Normal fetuses rarely got pickled. They rarely get pickled today. Conjoined twins, sure.

Though it is worth pointing out that the fetus was not pickled. Merely in a jar resembling a pickle jar. And really crammed in there to boot, since a 5 or 6 mo. old fetus does not easily fit in the average pickling jar.

[RockySullivan]

From the Whitehall inquest:
"A piece of paper was shown to me as having been picked up near the remains, and it was stained with the blood of an animal. "
+1 for butcher. Also Ernest edge gives testimony that the torso was not there on Saturday and that he stood in the exact spot where the torso was found. This is in contrary to the Police report that area was stained black around the parcel and it must have been there for sometime perhaps weeks.

[Fisherman]

At the inquest for the Whitehall torso the worker from the building says it would be very hard for someone who doesn't work in the building to have access to where the torso was dumped. How did the killer get down in to the vaults? Was he a worker in the building? It seems there is some believe that the torso was intended to be buried like the limb had been and the vault was only a temporary hiding place. What do you think...how could the ripper gain access to the vaults? The carpenter said he kept his tools in the vault because it was safer than the lockers. This means no one would be able to sneak in. Kind of sounds like the torso killer may have worked in the building? It was very dark in the vault and the carpenter was down in the vault a few times...he noticed the parcel but did not realize it was a torso. Hm suspicious. He felt that was the safest place to keep his tools...that meant very few people had access to the vault.
http://www.casebook.org/official_doc...whitehall.html

Anybody who scaled the fence surrounding the building project had access to the vault. Or anybody who knew how to open the unlocked door leading into it - it had some sort of cleverly constructed solution with a string or something. I donīt recall it exactly, but it was something along those lines.

If it had been impossible, I donīt think the killer would have placed himself in the kind of predicament it would have represented to be one out of a small bunch of men where the police would know that they had their killer.

It was a very bold and risky thing to do, nevertheless, placing that torso in the vault of the New Scotland Yard!

The best,
Fisherman