Poll: Organs/body parts removed or not?

[Sam Flynn]

All this cut and slash crap the only cut and slash was when he was mutilating the body with his knife and that's as far as it went. You cant remove these organs by cutting and slashing

No, but you can get most of the obstacles out of the way

The question is if you are after harvesting organs for whatever reason why risk damaging those organs

I don't assume he was intending to "harvest" anything.

[Trevor Marriott]

The one fact doesn't negate the other. The wounds were, demonstrably, crude - irrespective of who inflicted them, and irrespective of his or her medical knowledge.

Of course the wounds were crude the victim was subjected to a ferocious attack where she was stabbed at least 4 times through her outer clothing before the killer even started to mutilate the abdomen.

And that goes against the killer then removing the organs. The question is if you are after harvesting organs for whatever reason why risk damaging those organs by carrying out a ferocious attack and blindly stabbing and damaging the very organs you are looking to harvest. It clearly was no an afterthought on his part. If organ harvest for trophy or other means was his motive why not simply cut her throat and excise the organs in a normal way.

All this cut and slash crap the only cut and slash was when he was mutilating the body with his knife and that's as far as it went. You cant remove these organs by cutting and slashing

[Sam Flynn]

But crude as it may seem to you even Dr Brown agress that a certain amount of medical knowledge was needed

The one fact doesn't negate the other. The wounds were, demonstrably, crude - irrespective of who inflicted them, and irrespective of his or her medical knowledge.

[Sam Flynn]

As I said before you and I are not medical experts who are we to challenge what they say.

Any scientist worth their salt should always be open to have their opinions challenged. Besides, the issue here is not so much medical opinion, as the validity of the tests you cite.

These tests in no way adequately addressed the hypothesis that, by adopting "slash-and-grab" methods under time-pressure, a human kidney can be removed in 4 or 5 minutes. That is the exam question, and if you failed to ask it - or failed to test it - then the experiment, and any conclusions drawn from it, are entirely irrelevant to the matter in hand.

[Trevor Marriott]

Of course it matters how long it takes - that's one of the fundamental tenets of the "open-air evisceration" hypothesis, namely, that the killer did what he did in double-quick time, and did so very crudely. Any experiment that doesn't even attempt to test these tenets simply isn't valid.

But crude as it may seem to you even Dr Brown agress that a certain amount of medical knowledge was needed

[Trevor Marriott]

True, Trev - but it certainly helps if the abdominal cavity has been smashed open and the intestines flung to the four winds first.

You still cant put your hand in and take hold of it. When are you going to grasp that fact (No pun intended) The attached pic shows the pathologist pointing to the kidney encased in the renal fat. As you can see you cannot physically take hold of it. Note in this pic the intestines have been removed so even with them removed its an impossible task for it to be taken hold. Accept it and move on forget this cut and slash idea.

Medical experts can give an opinion which in a court would be admissible based on their experience and the facts before them. My team of experts did just that.

As I said before you and I are not medical experts who are we to challenge what they say. Only another medical expert can do that.

In the case of Dr Brown it is clear to me as a non medical expert that his evidence which you and others seek to rely to prove your point does not stand up to close scrutiny as I have already highlighted in a previous post last night

[Sam Flynn]

Under a controlled test it matters not how long it take does it because you never can recreate the actual crime.

Of course it matters how long it takes - that's one of the fundamental tenets of the "open-air evisceration" hypothesis, namely, that the killer did what he did in double-quick time, and did so very crudely. Any experiment that doesn't even attempt to test these tenets simply isn't valid.

[Sam Flynn]

Sam you are supposed to have some medical knowledge then you will know that you cannot reach into a an abdomen and physically take hold of a kidney for a start.

True, Trev - but it certainly helps if the abdominal cavity has been smashed open and the intestines flung to the four winds first.

[lynn cates]

pining for the fjords

Hello MB. And if that parrot were a Norwegian Blue? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

wise

Hello Trevor. Thanks.

"But if you took the same organ but it in a different way surely someone would twig that fact if it happened today?"

Likely.

"But not so in 1888 it seems."

Well, not so fast. Baxter and Bagster had something to say. Question: were they correct?

"As you know I don't subscribe to one lone killer in any event."

Your a wise man, Van Helsing.

Cheers.
LC

[moonbegger]

Yeah, people like to do that.

Most of the members who would actually post information or at least some semblance of a reasonable perspective have about quit posting anymore. I can see why.

Its more like the drunk who walked into a bar and rudely announced that he could sing through his arse. The bartender offered him a beer to prove it. The drunk climbed up on the bar, dropped his pants, then shite all over it. "What did you do that for," the barkeep raged.

"I was just clearing my throat," answered the drunk.

Speaking as a frequenter of East End pub scene , before the days of gentrification .. I can tell you now that , your scenario would be a lot more entertaining than some parrot sitting in the corner singing the same song over and over and over again ..

Keep Ripper Snobbery out of Ripperology

moonbegger

[El White Chap]

You have a strange way of expressing yourself.

I cannot be bothered anymore to get involved I have set out in clear and concise terms where I stand on this and can say no more.

Praise the almighty for that, looked like we were all going to have to suffer another ordeal.

It is quite clear accept or reject I wont lose any sleep either way. You like others only see what you want to see and read what you want to read and interpret it all in a way which which fits what you think is right.

I really don't twist what I read to fit with my idea of what is or isn't right. On the contrary, I'm keeping an open mind on most things regarding the WCM. Unlike for example, yourself.

In the last 24 hours we have seen examples of that with this referring to Dr Browns evidence which is now in tatters in relation to this issue

As is blatantly obvious, there aren't too many around here who subscribe to your inadequate farcical theories.

Your respectability around all things Whitechapel is what's in tatters.

[Trevor Marriott]

Organs...Medical research?...Never Trev! You're a clever cookie if ever there was one eh.

I was simply questioning the value of diseased organs for that purpose or indeed any other...It's you who missed the point but then again that's nothing new.

Poll going well for you?

You have a strange way of expressing yourself.

I cannot be bothered anymore to get involved I have set out in clear and concise terms where I stand on this and can say no more.

It is quite clear accept or reject I wont lose any sleep either way. You like others only see what you want to see and read what you want to read and interpret it all in a way which which fits what you think is right.

In the last 24 hours we have seen examples of that with this referring to Dr Browns evidence which is now in tatters in relation to this issue

[El White Chap]

Organs were required for medical research

You seem to be struggling full stop !

Organs...Medical research?...Never Trev! You're a clever cookie if ever there was one eh.

I was simply questioning the value of diseased organs for that purpose or indeed any other...It's you who missed the point but then again that's nothing new.

Poll going well for you?

[Trevor Marriott]

Looks like this half assed poll has people talking. Good.

Something that has been making me ponder is why would anyone want the organs from a bunch of rather unhealthy women from the east end?

If it was a mortuary attendant or someone from the medical profession, why take what are more than likely to be deceased and "imperfect" specimens.

I'm struggling to see the value they would offer someone other than our killer.

Would be interesting to hear what others think on that topic.

Organs were required for medical research

You seem to be struggling full stop !