Was Syphilis the cause of JtR's insanity and motive?

[Patrick Differ]

Hi RD - I respectfully disagree with your Syphilis assessment regarding physical strength because it depends on the Stage of the disease. These women were throttled first and it strikes me that Nichols, Chapman, Stride and Eddowes were found at or near a Wall. The left hand over the mouth and face and right hand on the neck or both hands on the neck a Man of average strength could render a weaker person unconscious within 10 seconds. A Man with powerful arms and upper body strength like a butcher, dock worker, etc. as you describe, would have no issues with the throttle. They could have also used the Wall as leverage.
Syphilis destroys the body but it depends on stage and how physically fit the person is , and how the disease is treated. In most cases during that time, especially in the lower classes, there was no treatment. It took many lives at very early and it could act like a fast growing cancer where a person appears healthy and the within 2 months they are gone.

[chubbs]

I don't want to say "likely" because there is no way to know, but certainly it is reasonable. End-stage syphilis is one way to (somewhat) explain these murders and their rather abrupt cessation. Jacob Levy is a good suspect in this vein.

...as is William Henry Bury - and we KNOW he murdered a woman and carved her stomach open. He definitely didn't like contracting his STi and giving it to his wife.

Edit: The fact that it was his wife that he murdered a few months after contracting the disease is also interesting. Maybe the STi was syphilis, which was increasingly eating away at his sanity?.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

There's always going to be a valid argument as to the killer's mental health; psychopathy, lunacy etc...

I am sure we can all agree that he was at the very least; a very disturbed individual.

However the physical aspects of the murders are often overlooked due to the focus being on the killers perceived mindset.

For example; if Stride was a Ripper victim; how could a man suffering from the physically devastating impact of syphilis have the physical strength to almost decapitate Stride with just 1 throat cut?

The killer displays immense strength for the murder of Stride because trying to decapitate his victim would require immense strength and force.

This could perhaps be achieved if the killer used something as leverage, in order to make that severity of cut in just a single attempt, but even then, the killer needed strength to achieve what he did.

Unless of course, the killer suffered from a form of disassociative mental health condition, whereby he appeared weak and puny, but was then able to produce immense strength from another personality taking over to dominate.

It sounds a little far-fetched perhaps, but there are real life cases whereby a killer has exhibited multi personalities (not quite the same as schizophrenia) and has been able to appear as someone completely different, including different accents and enhanced physical attributes.

I think this is unlikely, and that the simpler explanation is that the Ripper was a stout powerful man with formidable strength.

A butcher, dock worker, builder, navvy, sailor, manual labourer etc...

The idea that a man could be suffering from syphilis and then be able to almost take Stride's head off in complete silence and with just 1 cut; is frankly ridiculous.

The killer was physically powerful.

He had to have been.

Especially if he was used to carrying parcels containing torso parts all over the place.

I can attest from firsthand experience at both my prison and the hospitals I have worked at, that the syphilitic patient I posted about had considerable physical strength! Keep in mind that pathological states can induce abnormal strength. I vividly recall another patient wacked out on "bath salts" was about 150 pounds (11 stone) requiring myself and 6 police officers to get him restrained and sedated. His strength was phenomenal!

[John Wheat]

I can attest from firsthand experience at both my prison and the hospitals I have worked at, that the syphilitic patient I posted about had considerable physical strength! Keep in mind that pathological states can induce abnormal strength. I vividly recall another patient wacked out on "bath salts" was about 150 pounds (11 stone) requiring myself and 6 police officers to get him restrained and sedated. His strength was phenomenal!

On the subject of strength although Bury was a small man he reportedly had powerfully built arms and shoulders.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

On the subject of strength although Bury was a small man he reportedly had powerfully built arms and shoulders.

It doesn't require the strength of a Hercules to crush the hyoid bone of a drunken, middle-aged woman. One could say they were all alcoholics and bound to be hammered at any time of the day and night. After he chokes them out, it's a one-way conversation. I read where Annie Chapman was in a very bad state indeed, and had the Ripper not killed her, she had mere weeks to live. So we're not talking about any real challenge to a man. And if he's manic at the time of the attack, forget about it.

[The Rookie Detective]

It doesn't require the strength of a Hercules to crush the hyoid bone of a drunken, middle-aged woman. One could say they were all alcoholics and bound to be hammered at any time of the day and night. After he chokes them out, it's a one-way conversation. I read where Annie Chapman was in a very bad state indeed, and had the Ripper not killed her, she had mere weeks to live. So we're not talking about any real challenge to a man. And if he's manic at the time of the attack, forget about it.

Good point, although there's no evidence that Stride was intoxicated at the time of her murder.

Eddowes had also had time to sober up before leaving the police station.

And Kelly had no evidence of excessive alcohol use at the time of her death.

Chapman is an unknown

Only Nichols was witnessed to have been drunk as she staggered along the road.

But again, that was some time before she was found.

I think the idea of the victims having been drunk at the time they were murdered is not accurate.

I think the killer wanted his victims to know they were going to die.

Murdering a drunk woman may have reduced that excitement considerably.

[chubbs]

I made an appointment to discuss syphilis with Dr Google. What he told me was quite interesting.

The symptoms of syphilis are often mild and hard to notice.
Apparently, Neurosyphilis, affecting the mind, would normally occur if the disease remains untreated for 10-20 years.
Sufferers in the early stages (first couple of years) would have physical symptoms - sores, rashes, headache, patchy hair loss on the head, weight loss, tiredness, muscle aches, fever, swollen glands, fatigue.
After the first couple of years, syphilis can lie dormant for years. Not everyone who goes on to develop tertiary phase untreated syphilis will be affected mentally - it depends if the bug has infected the spinal cord or not.

Now that I'm an expert on Syphilis, it seems to me that if JtR had it, the disease itself may not have been a major factor, unless he'd had it for quite a while (possible), or unless the knowledge that he'd recently contracted it made him very angry - tipped him over the edge.


...oh and you can't get it from door knobs.

[C. F. Leon]

...
...oh and you can't get it from door knobs.

Depends on just WHERE your FRIENDLY neighborhood doorknob has been in the last 10 or 15 minutes and WHO it was with...

[Patrick Differ]

Hi Chubbs- Syphilis was largely untreated in Londons lower classes and it was a major cause of death. There was no cure. It would eventually affect internal organs and possibly the brain. You could get Ricord mercury pills if you had the money or saw a Doctor regularly. Most could not. Like Cocaine, which was widely available then and considered a " miracle " drug, untreated syphilis could cause episodes. Doctors at the time were tracking duration of psychiatric behavior equivalent to depression along with violence, hallucinations,etc.
i dont believe this killer turned his switch off at will but may have had periods where he could not control the urge to complete his episode. This might explain Stride and Eddowes and all the events of that evening. It could explain his boldness. Just a thought.