Drink

[Tani]

Many serial killers have been addicts and we know the East End was often fuelled by drink.

Could Jack fall into this category? I know it's been suggested before. If From Hell is genuine as some believe (I don't), it has been analysed as being potentially by a drunken hand. It would be suggestive.

I can't see Ripper doing all of this drunk wholesale, especially not MJK, but might he have had some?

Cons would be it would be harder to make his escape with drunk legs, harder to see etc.

I'm not sold on it.

How about you?

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

Many serial killers have been addicts and we know the East End was often fuelled by drink.

Could Jack fall into this category? I know it's been suggested before. If From Hell is genuine as some believe (I don't), it has been analysed as being potentially by a drunken hand. It would be suggestive.

I can't see Ripper doing all of this drunk wholesale, especially not MJK, but might he have had some?

Cons would be it would be harder to make his escape with drunk legs, harder to see etc.

I'm not sold on it.

How about you?

I speculate that ol' Jack may have imbibed a bit before the murders. As you have correctly mentioned, many serial killers are under the influence of something when they murder; just how much influence depends on what and how much they imbibed. This bit of "Dutch courage" (apologies to anyone of Dutch extraction!) may explain Jack's daring and seeming indifference to the extreme risks of discovery that he took. For my own example, when my then-wife explained that her water broke while pregnant with our first child, I took a deep breath and went to the small bar we had set up. I poured myself about 3 fingers of bourbon in an old-fashioned glass and calmly got her bags, then we headed to the hospital. That stiff drink calmed me like the hand of the Lord, enabling me to assist my wife through 12 hours of difficult labor. Why do you think they put the stuff in bottles?? LOL!

"Malt does more than Milton can/To justify God's ways to Man" - Housman.

[John Wheat]

Many serial killers have been addicts and we know the East End was often fuelled by drink.

Could Jack fall into this category? I know it's been suggested before. If From Hell is genuine as some believe (I don't), it has been analysed as being potentially by a drunken hand. It would be suggestive.

I can't see Ripper doing all of this drunk wholesale, especially not MJK, but might he have had some?

Cons would be it would be harder to make his escape with drunk legs, harder to see etc.

I'm not sold on it.

How about you?

I think it likely Jack drank. Jack may even have been an alcoholic.

[The Rookie Detective]

I think it likely Jack drank. Jack may even have been an alcoholic.

On the contrary; he may easily have been a teetotaler who frequented Coffee houses; that doubled as lodging houses and/or brothels.

If perhaps he was a religious man and/or a Salvationist, then he may have found the idea of Unfortunates under the influence of alcohol, particularly abhorrent and in part; worthy of punishment.


It would seem likely for a clinical psychopath to have the need to be in control of his own senses at all times and the limiting effects of alcohol may have compromised this aspect of a Psychopath's generic need to always be in control.


The level of rage, anger, resentment and disgust that the Ripper had is testament to a man who wanted to obliterate, expose and humiliate his victims; being a teetotaler would support that idea.


Of course, if we believe the killer wasn't a clinical psychopath and merely a man who suffered from psychotic episodes triggered by alcohol and being around prostitutes, then I could perhaps see the argument that he was also a drunk or a man who suffered from alcohol abuse.

But a man who deliberately mutilates his victims post mortem suggests a degree of calculated and measured indifference rather than an attack fuelled by excessive alcohol consumption.


Just my opinion of course but I would suggest that the Ripper was too clever and focused to be bogged down by the potential consequences of drinking alcohol before his kills.


RD

[Lewis C]

I believe I've seen it suggested that there's a good chance that the Ripper met his victims, or some of them, in bars, and if that's the case, I'd expect that he at least drank a little bit.

[Tel]

No real indicators either way, although I doubt if he ws teetotal.

[erobitha]

On the contrary; he may easily have been a teetotaler who frequented Coffee houses; that doubled as lodging houses and/or brothels.

If perhaps he was a religious man and/or a Salvationist, then he may have found the idea of Unfortunates under the influence of alcohol, particularly abhorrent and in part; worthy of punishment.


It would seem likely for a clinical psychopath to have the need to be in control of his own senses at all times and the limiting effects of alcohol may have compromised this aspect of a Psychopath's generic need to always be in control.


The level of rage, anger, resentment and disgust that the Ripper had is testament to a man who wanted to obliterate, expose and humiliate his victims; being a teetotaler would support that idea.


Of course, if we believe the killer wasn't a clinical psychopath and merely a man who suffered from psychotic episodes triggered by alcohol and being around prostitutes, then I could perhaps see the argument that he was also a drunk or a man who suffered from alcohol abuse.

But a man who deliberately mutilates his victims post mortem suggests a degree of calculated and measured indifference rather than an attack fuelled by excessive alcohol consumption.


Just my opinion of course but I would suggest that the Ripper was too clever and focused to be bogged down by the potential consequences of drinking alcohol before his kills.


RD

I beg to differ.

Generally, psychopaths are more likely to consume stimulants in order "to feel something" or get a "pick me up". Psychopaths exist everywhere and not just in the world of serial killers.

Richard Ramirez used cocaine constantly and committed the most horrific crimes. He was a clinical psychopath.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354172508_Psychological_Profile_of_a_Criminal_Offender_Richard_Ramirez#:~:text=often%20a%20strong%20family%20history,behavior%20aspect%20in%20numerous%20ways.&text=violent%20history%20of%20his%20upbringing,psychopathic%20tendencies%20were%20clearly%20evident.

Ted Bundy drank alcohol and smoked marijuana. I think you can safely brand him as a psychopath.

https://bundyphile.com/2020/04/12/ted-bundy-and-alcohol/

Ed Kemper was a a regular drinker at the Jury Room bar where he got inside information from local cops. He was the very definition of a psychopathic serial killer.

Being a psychopath is not about having a 100% clear head; it's about having the conviction to see through what you plan to do. The stimulants accelerate that mindset for some. It isn't about keeping down the guilt or empathy because they have none. It's about getting the job done that they have walked through in their mind and plan to do. They believe it actually helps them focus, which is clearly nonsense. Too much can impact their ability to execute their desires.

Psychopaths are almost all addicted to something, not just alcohol or drugs.

[The Rookie Detective]

I beg to differ.

Generally, psychopaths are more likely to consume stimulants in order "to feel something" or get a "pick me up". Psychopaths exist everywhere and not just in the world of serial killers.

Richard Ramirez used cocaine constantly and committed the most horrific crimes. He was a clinical psychopath.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354172508_Psychological_Profile_of_a_Criminal_Offe nder_Richard_Ramirez#:~:text=often%20a%20strong%20 family%20history,behavior%20aspect%20in%20numerous %20ways.&text=violent%20history%20of%20his%20upbri nging,psychopathic%20tendencies%20were%20clearly%2 0evident.

Ted Bundy drank alcohol and smoked marijuana. I think you can safely brand him as a psychopath.

https://bundyphile.com/2020/04/12/ted-bundy-and-alcohol/

Ed Kemper was a a regular drinker at the Jury Room bar where he got inside information from local cops. He was the very definition of a psychopathic serial killer.

Being a psychopath is not about having a 100% clear head; it's about having the conviction to see through what you plan to do. The stimulants accelerate that mindset for some. It isn't about keeping down the guilt or empathy because they have none. It's about getting the job done that they have walked through in their mind and plan to do. They believe it actually helps them focus, which is clearly nonsense. Too much can impact their ability to execute their desires.

Psychopaths are almost all addicted to something, not just alcohol or drugs.

Exceptional post that's hard to argue with.

You have presented clear examples of cases that provide evidence to contradict my post; and so I stand corrected.

Although I believe that in the case of the Ripper...

His stimulant was post mortem cutting and mutilation.

It seems his addiction could just as easily have been the satisfaction and stimulus from cutting into a woman's flesh after he had just incapacitated her.

Ergo, the action of cutting into flesh may have acted in the same way as consuming alcohol or smoking a cigar.


It's not necessarily the drug itself; it's the addiction to a particular action and thought process that provides feelings of satisfaction.


RD

[erobitha]

Exceptional post that's hard to argue with.

You have presented clear examples of cases that provide evidence to contradict my post; and so I stand corrected.

Although I believe that in the case of the Ripper...

His stimulant was post mortem cutting and mutilation.

It seems his addiction could just as easily have been the satisfaction and stimulus from cutting into a woman's flesh after he had just incapacitated her.

Ergo, the action of cutting into flesh may have acted in the same way as consuming alcohol or smoking a cigar.


It's not necessarily the drug itself; it's the addiction to a particular action and thought process that provides feelings of satisfaction.


RD

I accept mutilation could be an addiction and that clearly was at least one of Jack’s.

My own opinion is I do think he was a drinker but not an alcoholic. I think the pubs would have been a good place to hide in plain sight and target any potential victims.

[John Wheat]

Isn't there a possibility Jack was a functioning alcoholic and might not have been that effected by the drink in terms of being able to mutilate?

[Scott Nelson]

By 'drink', does it mean the Ripper took one drink or serving before killing?

[Tani]

By 'drink', does it mean the Ripper took one drink or serving before killing?

Any amount one may reckon.

[Scott Nelson]

So 'drink' can mean more than one. Is that grammatically correct?

[Tani]

So 'drink' can mean more than one. Is that grammatically correct?

Yes, as in 'he plied himself with drink.'

[JeffHamm]

I beg to differ.

Generally, psychopaths are more likely to consume stimulants in order "to feel something" or get a "pick me up". Psychopaths exist everywhere and not just in the world of serial killers.

Richard Ramirez used cocaine constantly and committed the most horrific crimes. He was a clinical psychopath.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354172508_Psychological_Profile_of_a_Criminal_Offender_Richard_Ramirez#:~:text=often%20a%20strong%20family%20history,behavior%20aspect%20in%20numerous%20ways.&text=violent%20history%20of%20his%20upbringing,psychopathic%20tendencies%20were%20clearly%20evident.

Ted Bundy drank alcohol and smoked marijuana. I think you can safely brand him as a psychopath.

https://bundyphile.com/2020/04/12/ted-bundy-and-alcohol/

Ed Kemper was a a regular drinker at the Jury Room bar where he got inside information from local cops. He was the very definition of a psychopathic serial killer.

Being a psychopath is not about having a 100% clear head; it's about having the conviction to see through what you plan to do. The stimulants accelerate that mindset for some. It isn't about keeping down the guilt or empathy because they have none. It's about getting the job done that they have walked through in their mind and plan to do. They believe it actually helps them focus, which is clearly nonsense. Too much can impact their ability to execute their desires.

Psychopaths are almost all addicted to something, not just alcohol or drugs.

Indeed, Jeffrey Dahmer, Fred West, John Gacy, and Dennis Neilson also drank frequently. Colin Ireland and David McArthur both met their victims in clubs/bars, so presumably would have been drinking as well.

Of course, it is not universal, I don't recall seeing any mention of drugs or alcohol with regards to Dennis Radar, for example.

However, while not necessarily all alcoholics or drug addicts, use of either or both during the commission of their crimes is common. For some, like Ireland and McArthur, it might be part of where they went to make contact with their victims. Indeed, Dahmer met many of his victims at local bars as well, and Dennis Neilson would invite men in to drink with him. So the idea that they avoid drinking/drug use in order keep a "clear head" is not something that should be assumed, and indeed, is very often not the case.

- Jeff