Older Then Younger Victims

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

From your response, it looks to me like you understood my 2nd point shown here, but thought that my 2nd point was the same as my first point. What I was saying in my first point was that younger men were more likely to commit violent crimes than older men, but someone of any age could be the victim of a violent crime. That would mean that the average age of violent criminals would be younger than the average age of victims, which would mean that more often than not, the perpetrator of a violent crime would be younger than the victim of it.

Ahhh, got it! I misread. And yes, most crimes are committed by younger people; some biological imperative mixed with Anti-Social Personality Disorder at work, perhaps. One look at my jail bears this out. Not sure what the national stats are, as I have been retired for some time now. What I was alluding to was that many younger men who commit rapes choose significantly older female victims, and not for the practical reasons; I feel they are acting out against some dominating female force in their lives. I think the Ripper was, too, whether he knew it or not.

[Lewis C]

Ahhh, got it! I misread. And yes, most crimes are committed by younger people; some biological imperative mixed with Anti-Social Personality Disorder at work, perhaps. One look at my jail bears this out. Not sure what the national stats are, as I have been retired for some time now. What I was alluding to was that many younger men who commit rapes choose significantly older female victims, and not for the practical reasons; I feel they are acting out against some dominating female force in their lives. I think the Ripper was, too, whether he knew it or not.

I don't know whether the Ripper was intentionally targeting older women, or whether it was just a case where that's who he happened to come across when he was looking for a victim. But acting out against some dominating female force in their lives is certainly a possibility.

[Lombro2]

I'm a retired Corrections Officer, and one of the things we saw a LOT of in our prisons is that in many rapes and sexual assaults, the female victims are often significantly older than their attackers. I believe this points to a "mother issue," whereby the perpetrator consciously or unconsciously chooses his victim because she is an analogue of his (presumably) abusive mother. However, this is just speculation as to Jack's motivations. Given that he probably lucked out and found Mary Kelly, age may not have been a factor in his pathology. Or maybe it was.

Would you agree that this is speculation on a low probability theory? The victims would not likely be significantly older than the Ripper to the point that they were old enough to be his mother.

[bernadette]

[QUOTE=Lombro2;n824349]Can’t oI have wondered if Mary Kelly was not the goal all along and that he was thwarted because of Barnett. He did those easy to get to, easy to subdue women until he could finally get Mary and when he did, he took his time with her and did her the most brutal of all. Not only was she over a decade younger but she kept herself better, looking more upscale, she was prettier, she was taller, also I dont know if it made a difference but she was the only Catholic. Then when he finally had done that one, he was done altogether. he fufilled his mission

[Lombro2]

when he did, he took his time with her and did her the most brutal of all. Not only was she over a decade younger but she kept herself better, looking more upscale, she was prettier, she was taller,

I do think Mary Kelly’s murder stands out from the rest so I can entertain your speculation of her being “the goal” for the reasons you mention. It has a higher probability compared to just chance and opportunity, although I see what you mean by Barnett being in the way before he moved out and the opportunity arising.

If you are looking for a motive or a trigger, I think you have to look at Mary before all the other canonicals, as either the reason for what happened, like some people always thought, or she’s the real substitute for the real person whom the Ripper would blame for his actions.

[Barnaby]

Not sure about the "mother issue" deductions from the victimology (aside from Kelly). It's reasonable, of course. But Ed Kemper was a sexual serial killer with clear mommy issues and he primarily killed co-eds before he killed his mother. I assume we could find lots of serial killers who had troubled relationships with their mothers, but only a fraction targeted older women.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

Would you agree that this is speculation on a low probability theory? The victims would not likely be significantly older than the Ripper to the point that they were old enough to be his mother.

Not sure about the UK stats, but here in America, the number of middle-aged rape victims is quite high, a lot higher than you'd think. As for Victorian serial killers, then yes, the probability is likely to be lower, but it cannot be discounted.

[Lombro2]

I agree, Holmes, that it can’t be discounted. But I also wouldn’t discount a suspect who had one “wife” in her forties and another wife who was exactly 25 when the murders began.

Are you swayed by the advanced ages alone or also by the Lust Murderer theory which gives a less “mature” subject profile.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

I agree, Holmes, that it can’t be discounted. But I also wouldn’t discount a suspect who had one “wife” in her forties and another wife who was exactly 25 when the murders began.

Are you swayed by the advanced ages alone or also by the Lust Murderer theory which gives a less “mature” subject profile.

Neither. The ages of the victims drew my attention because of the ages of many female victims of violent rape and assault, and the reasons given by the offenders: abusive mother/family, incest, etc. I mentioned it because it rang a bell with me from my Corrections days.

One could argue that the killer was driven by "lust" in the sense that his knife was his penis. Think about how terrified of women the Ripper must have been; that the occasioning frame of his madness was expressed in the butchery we see here. Although I might say that Jack was a very shy bloke, he conversely seemed to have no fear of getting caught and was brazen in his kills, especially Chapman and Eddowes. But it's all speculation, isn't it?

[Lombro2]

Not sure about the "mother issue" deductions from the victimology (aside from Kelly). It's reasonable, of course. But Ed Kemper was a sexual serial killer with clear mommy issues and he primarily killed co-eds before he killed his mother. I assume we could find lots of serial killers who had troubled relationships with their mothers, but only a fraction targeted older women.

I recall that Kemper’s mother worked at the college and told him he wasn’t good enough for the Co-Eds so there could still be a mother issue with a young victim.

Similarly, JtR’s mother could have been a prostitute like Kenneth Bianchi’s mother. So similar age isn’t the only factor in a Substitution Murder.

This is all speculation of course but I still think the best speculation has to do with a wife and/or girlfriend.

[Lombro2]

The knife could just as well be phallic for an old and impotent man as a lustful and fearful young guy. I won’t even talk about using the knife to engage in terrorism (think how terrified the country was!). This is about Age Profile and Victimology.

I’m not going to insist on sticking to serial killer convention, saying perpetrators are usually older than the victim, and picking a 50 year old, although there have been a couple of over 50 year old SK rookies like Bruce McArthur. I agree now with those who think this had more to do with opportunity and other choices he made.

He wisely chose to work between 1am and 5:30am or so, so the older prostitutes would be out. So I don’t insist that any significant-other he had a problem with had to be in her mid 40s. But the overkill on Mary suggests someone 25.

[Tel]

A serial killer killing older women is interesting criminal behaviour in itself and I think it’s unique. Off-hand, I can think of three examples of serial killers who killed older women—the Boston Strangler, the Lipstick Killer and the Gorilla Man. I thought it was rare and so far I think I’m right. In fact, one or two of those are now considered to possibly be myths.

Real or not, these killers coincidentally also had a change in the victim age group as did Jack the Ripper. For example, Earle Nelson went from victims over 60 to 20 year olds. The Ripper, we know, went from 40s to “25”.

So what can this coincidence tell us, if anything? Why older victims and why the switch?

There was also John Wayne Glover, 'The Granny Killer' in Sydney. I'm sure there have been others

[Tel]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wayne_Glover

[Abby Normal]

just off the top of my head, btk killed older and younger victims also. and the range was quite large ...young teen all the way to woman in her fifties.

[Lombro2]

There was also John Wayne Glover, 'The Granny Killer' in Sydney. I'm sure there have been others

Glover is one example of an official-so-far 50 year old SK rookie. This reality of advanced-aged rookies was discovered by Ripper Suspectology on James Maybrick. Glover was 56 when he started.

His victims ranged from 60-93. The 60 year old was the last one and he had a platonic relationship with her. His wife had just left him. She’d be about his age shy of 60. He also had problems with his mother and he had victims 20-37 years older than him.

As I said, I’m more insisting on the age of the Significant Other(s) than the Ripper.