Older Then Younger Victims

[Lombro2]

A serial killer killing older women is interesting criminal behaviour in itself and I think it’s unique. Off-hand, I can think of three examples of serial killers who killed older women—the Boston Strangler, the Lipstick Killer and the Gorilla Man. I thought it was rare and so far I think I’m right. In fact, one or two of those are now considered to possibly be myths.

Real or not, these killers coincidentally also had a change in the victim age group as did Jack the Ripper. For example, Earle Nelson went from victims over 60 to 20 year olds. The Ripper, we know, went from 40s to “25”.

So what can this coincidence tell us, if anything? Why older victims and why the switch?

[Wickerman]

As a guess, I would suggest the killer started with older women, especially a drunk, because they will put up least resistance, compared with the younger prostitutes.
His victims get younger as his confidence grows?

[erobitha]

Harold Shipman is the world's most prolific serial killer of older people. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Shipman

I concur with Wickerman that the older and more drunk prostitutes were easier prey due to their ability of resistance versus younger women. This to me, suggests the killer might not have been confident in his abilities to easily overpower someone younger. With Kelly, the circumstances were different. She had her own room and therefore privacy. He was more confident in this environment than on the street

I think it has less to do with changing age range targets because he was evolving, but more to do with his ability to overpower and get what he wants.

[Scott Nelson]

It may have started as a 'mother' thing. Then it turns into a 'sister' or 'girlfriend' thing.

[Lombro2]

I agree with the “cherchez la femme” approach. (I don’t know about “les femmes”.) But “age inappropriate” does indicate a possible age-variant “female trigger factor”. Now which significant woman could it be?

Older age doesn’t always mean “mother”. Earle Nelson, the Gorilla Man, presumably went after older women because his ex-wife was 65.

[Lombro2]

Gorilla Man Nelson, for one, wouldn’t have lacked confidence in overcoming younger women. I’m sure he could have started with them if he wanted to.

Victims of opportunity (for availability, for “greater advantage” or for getting away with it) applies to Shipman whose an old doctor with patient victims, but comparatively not so much with the Ripper if he’s anything like the Gorilla Man. Or is he more of a Shipton?

[erobitha]

Gorilla Man Nelson, for one, wouldn’t have lacked confidence in overcoming younger women. I’m sure he could have started with them if he wanted to.

Victims of opportunity (for availability, for “greater advantage” or for getting away with it) applies to Shipman whose an old doctor with patient victims, but comparatively not so much with the Ripper if he’s anything like the Gorilla Man. Or is he more of a Shipton?

Shipman killed his victims by injections they were expecting. He wasn’t expecting a struggle and neither did he get any. Whilst some of his victims were not over 60, the majority were which suggests he had a definite preference over his choice of victim which was not related to whether they struggled or not.

The fact Jack did have a temporary struggle initially to overpower his victims, would suggest he chose them because of their inability to fight back rather than he had a preference for alcoholic over 40s - they were just easier to contain. Kelly was different because he had privacy and more time. Also we don’t know if Stride was drunk or at the very least very tipsy.

[Lombro2]

I would say height was more important than age. The outdoor victims were either 5 ft or 5 ft 2. So I believe he wouldn’t have had to take them to the ground from behind.

Older victims might still make sense. But does that mean they’re older than other prostitutes and older than him? Couldn’t he be 40 for the same reason?

What does it tell us about the killer’s age and what does it say about the “femme” we might be “cherchezing” as in “chercher la femme”?

[Lombro2]

I always thought that the witnesses should have been tested. Now I realize they could have just asked them what they thought was the age of the victims. The victims could have been used as a control.

[Wickerman]

Shipman killed his victims by injections they were expecting. He wasn’t expecting a struggle and neither did he get any. Whilst some of his victims were not over 60, the majority were which suggests he had a definite preference over his choice of victim which was not related to whether they struggled or not.

The fact Jack did have a temporary struggle initially to overpower his victims, would suggest he chose them because of their inability to fight back rather than he had a preference for alcoholic over 40s - they were just easier to contain. Kelly was different because he had privacy and more time. Also we don’t know if Stride was drunk or at the very least very tipsy.

Exactly, other killers who poison or shoot their victims will have other considerations in mind. This does suggest Jack had to use physical force to subdue his victims, it is consistent with suggestions & evidence that strangulation or choking was employed as the means of restraint.

[Tom_Wescott]

A serial killer killing older women is interesting criminal behaviour in itself and I think it’s unique. Off-hand, I can think of three examples of serial killers who killed older women—the Boston Strangler, the Lipstick Killer and the Gorilla Man. I thought it was rare and so far I think I’m right. In fact, one or two of those are now considered to possibly be myths.

Real or not, these killers coincidentally also had a change in the victim age group as did Jack the Ripper. For example, Earle Nelson went from victims over 60 to 20 year olds. The Ripper, we know, went from 40s to “25”.

So what can this coincidence tell us, if anything? Why older victims and why the switch?

Jack the Ripper preyed on drunk women who remained out late looking for custom. Ones who worked in particular areas. I don't believe that age was a factor for him, though it may have been. Perhaps he wasn't confident approaching younger women. Or maybe he feared they'd have more fight in them. For what it's worth, Polly Nichols and Liz Stride were said to appear younger than their years. As for Mary Kelly, she had her own room. It's possible this was important to a killer who'd had a narrow escape the month before. Or it's just coincidence that he happened to hook up with a young woman who had her own room.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Lombro2]

Can’t one or the other age group be substitution murder?

[Darryl Kenyon]

We only have Mary's word that she was 25 in what she related to Barnett. In the case of the Boston Strangler , De Salvo is only linked by any forensic evidence to the last victim ,Mary Sullivan. There are some people who have investigated the case believe not all the murders were perpetrated by one man and De Salvo may have been a copycat.
Regards Darryl

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

We only have Mary's word that she was 25 in what she related to Barnett.

Detective Walter Dew, in his autobiography, claimed to have known Kelly well by sight. He described her as "quite attractive" and "a pretty, buxom girl".<sup>[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jane_Kelly</sup>

That does not seem like a description of a woman who was in her forties.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Detective Walter Dew, in his autobiography, claimed to have known Kelly well by sight. He described her as "quite attractive" and "a pretty, buxom girl".<sup>[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jane_Kelly</sup>

That does not seem like a description of a woman who was in her forties.

I never said she was in her forties. Only that we have Mary's word that she was 25