Older Then Younger Victims

[GBinOz]

I'm a retired Corrections Officer, and one of the things we saw a LOT of in our prisons is that in many rapes and sexual assaults, the female victims are often significantly older than their attackers. I believe this points to a "mother issue," whereby the perpetrator consciously or unconsciously chooses his victim because she is an analogue of his (presumably) abusive mother. However, this is just speculation as to Jack's motivations. Given that he probably lucked out and found Mary Kelly, age may not have been a factor in his pathology. Or maybe it was.

Hi HIB,

Welcome to Casebook.

I tend to agree with yourself and Scott regarding the "mother issue". I think that a dominating and overbearing mother featured in his profile.

Cheers, George

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

Hi HIB, welcome to Casebook.


Thanks! I used to post here quite often many years ago. However, life has its distractions and so I followed other interests. Now, I have booked a week in London with my oldest son, who is also interested in the case, and I decided to jump back into things to learn as much as possible from differing perspectives.

I note that you said "many" which leads me to infer that there were all many where that wasn't the case.

By "many," I meant the number of modern rapes where I came to know the offenders in my prison; many of them were younger and their victims could have been their mothers. All the victims except MJK were old enough to have adult children.

Maybe what was going on was that a young man was much more likely than an older one to be the perpetrator, but a victim could be any age. That would mean that on the average, the perpetrator would be younger than the victim.

At the risk of sounding sexist, any man of normal strength would have little trouble dispatching drunken women of any age, most of them possibly suffering from ill-health related to drink (and living that lifestyle), and making away with their organs. I look forward to your reply.

It could be too that an older woman might be perceived to be an easier target.

See above.

[Lewis C]

I'm a retired Corrections Officer, and one of the things we saw a LOT of in our prisons is that in many rapes and sexual assaults, the female victims are often significantly older than their attackers. I believe this points to a "mother issue," whereby the perpetrator consciously or unconsciously chooses his victim because she is an analogue of his (presumably) abusive mother. However, this is just speculation as to Jack's motivations. Given that he probably lucked out and found Mary Kelly, age may not have been a factor in his pathology. Or maybe it was.

Hi HIB, welcome to Casebook.

I note that you said "many" which leads me to infer that there were all many where that wasn't the case. Maybe what was going on was that a young man was much more likely than an older one to be the perpetrator, but a victim could be any age. That would mean that on the average, the perpetrator would be younger than the victim. It could be too that an older woman might be perceived to be an easier target.

[c.d.]

It might have been a factor but not the only factor or overriding factor. Just no way to tell.

c.d.

[Scott Nelson]

Probably not enough victims in the series to identify any progression in age selection. Also dependent on the mindset of the killer from day to day.

[Holmes' Idiot Brother]

I'm a retired Corrections Officer, and one of the things we saw a LOT of in our prisons is that in many rapes and sexual assaults, the female victims are often significantly older than their attackers. I believe this points to a "mother issue," whereby the perpetrator consciously or unconsciously chooses his victim because she is an analogue of his (presumably) abusive mother. However, this is just speculation as to Jack's motivations. Given that he probably lucked out and found Mary Kelly, age may not have been a factor in his pathology. Or maybe it was.

[Lombro2]

Nothing of Mary's back story as related to Barnett has been proved to be true , you know that. She may have been young and pretty, but for what it is worth I believe the killer wasn't looking for a particular type , just a woman who was vulnerable. And there probably was more of them walking the streets at all hours of the morning who were in their forties, bedraggled etc than ones who were pretty and younger and probably had earned their doss money easier.

I never used to believe in the “victim of opportunity” explanation for the First Four age range. Could there only be 40 year olds out between 1 and 4:30? I thought not.

But now that Tom pointed out that Polly and Liz looked younger, I’m going to have to agree with you and Tom, and dismiss my idea that the killer picked over 40 because that was his age range. (He could still be over 40 though IMO.)

But Mary, to me, points to a youngish “wife” and a substitution murder because of the overkill. Mary or the wife don’t exactly have to be 25. If Mary was 25 and Irish, she could look 15. I think she’s 30 or over. McCarthy said she looked 30 and I think he was an honest judge, not trying to be polite.

[Darryl Kenyon]

It seems that about three years before she died, she gave her age as 22 years.

That too is consistent with her having been about 25 when she was murdered.

It's also consistent with Mary keeping to her story that she was born in Limerick, brought up in Wales , married at 16 and her name being Mary Jane Kelly. None of which has been proved despite the diligence of top class researchers in the ripper field

[Lombro2]

A 25 year old victim would be consistent with a substitution murder for a 25 year old wife/significant other. I don’t think anyone goes with a wife over 40.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

It's also consistent of her being twenty or thirty

It seems that about three years before she died, she gave her age as 22 years.

That too is consistent with her having been about 25 when she was murdered.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Dew's description of her is consistent with her own estimate of her age.

It's also consistent of her being twenty or thirty

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

Nothing of Mary's back story as related to Barnett has been proved to be true , you know that.

Dew's description of her is consistent with her own estimate of her age.

[Darryl Kenyon]

I know.

My point is that Dew's memoir supports Mary's word.

Nothing of Mary's back story as related to Barnett has been proved to be true , you know that. She may have been young and pretty, but for what it is worth I believe the killer wasn't looking for a particular type , just a woman who was vulnerable. And there probably was more of them walking the streets at all hours of the morning who were in their forties, bedraggled etc than ones who were pretty and younger and probably had earned their doss money easier.

[PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR 1]

I never said she was in her forties. Only that we have Mary's word that she was 25

I know.

My point is that Dew's memoir supports Mary's word.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Detective Walter Dew, in his autobiography, claimed to have known Kelly well by sight. He described her as "quite attractive" and "a pretty, buxom girl".<sup>[18]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Jane_Kelly</sup>

That does not seem like a description of a woman who was in her forties.

I never said she was in her forties. Only that we have Mary's word that she was 25