Did JTR ever change his M.O. intentionally?

[Wickerman]

... A serial killer with a high IQ is more likely to police his evidence, he is more likely to have contingency plans. He is also far more likely to recognize when something is "wrong" and abort. His ability to plan and adapt quickly obscures his motive. These guys are very hard to read until they get caught and start talking about it.

Which is where I think it applies to Jack. To bring it around again to the topic at hand.

What you say above is true, today.

The serial killer who thinks on his feet (so to speak) is a product of necessity.
The need to police your work, to cover your tracks, to always have an 'out' was not a necessity in 1888.
Judging the IQ (or intelligence?), of someone who was not required to use it (when compared with today's forensic world), is a hard call to make.

[lynn cates]

analogy

Hello CD.

"I don't quite understand how knife cuts have now become the equivalent of fingerprints in that they are always going to be the same."

Although I cannot speak for anyone else, I would say that technique is part of a brand. If one house is painted with clean vertical strokes and another with cross hatching that leaves gaps and runs, I would at least suspect that the professional who painted the first house were NOT the tyro who did the second.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I am not sure if that one is up to your usual analogy standards but I will respond anyway. If the cross hatching painter was paid the same as the clean strokes painter, would he really care if the job he did was not up to the previous standard?

The throat cutting was simply a means to an end. I don't think consistency in the cuts was the goal itself.

c.d.

[Errata]

What you say above is true, today.

The serial killer who thinks on his feet (so to speak) is a product of necessity.
The need to police your work, to cover your tracks, to always have an 'out' was not a necessity in 1888.
Judging the IQ (or intelligence?), of someone who was not required to use it (when compared with today's forensic world), is a hard call to make.

I disagree. One of the many factors that killers of average intelligence fail to consider is the people they are surrounded by when they aren't killing. They have an imperfect veneer of normalcy. Now today, people have "issues" and whatnot, and we brush off the idea that creepy dudes are in fact bad people. Not so in 1888.

And he did need contingency plans. He was killing in the open. It's ridiculously easy to kill without getting caught, but on the open streets of a major city it's a lot harder.

It's also worth pointing out that he was able to kill without getting so caught up in it that he was not alert for patrols. Which can be for a number of reasons, but with the ability to process information from various sources simultaneously (which is a function of IQ) it's a lot easier.

[Errata]

I don't quite understand how knife cuts have now become the equivalent of fingerprints in that they are always going to be the same. Before I jump to the conclusion of a different killer, I would want to know if there are any factors that could account for the same killer using different cuts. Could it be attributable to him using a different knife, cutting from a different angle, the position of the victim as he cut, movement and struggle from the victim etc.?

Again, before I leap to the conclusion of a different killer, I would also want to know if the same killer using different cuts is unique in the annals of crime or is it fairly commonplace?

Any knife cut that kills the victim is successful be it consistent or not.

c.d.

Whether or not knife cuts are a factor sort of depends on the killer. If he's an OCD type, then of course you would expect a certain consistency and order to his cuts. Anyone with a specific training in either surgery, butchery or even field dressing would also have fairly consistent cuts.

But that being said, as some who uses a knife a TON, a whole lot of things affect cutting. External and internal influences. Aside from the causes you listed, there's also the amount and quality of light, nerves, decaying edge quality, slippery handle, hell if my blood sugar is low I cut like crap. And one can never underestimate how much simple curiosity or a sudden whim can alter what a person does. If a guy thinks "hey I wonder if I can pop her head off?" it doesn't mean he NEEDS to do it, but he might think it's worth a try.

[c.d.]

Hello Errata,

Yes, you make all good points. One also has to ask if the killer were trying to leave his calling card as it were, as if he were saying yes this is MY work, or did he not give a damn as long as he achieved his desired end.

c.d.

[Errata]

Hello Errata,

Yes, you make all good points. One also has to ask if the killer were trying to leave his calling card as it were, as if he were saying yes this is MY work, or did he not give a damn as long as he achieved his desired end.

c.d.

We know that serial killers are matching a fantasy in their head when they kill. We also know that fantasies can change. But it is still a learning process. A killer might go straight in with a long blade, pierce the colon and get sprayed with effluvia, and decide that was an unpleasant enough experience not to repeat. Next time he uses a shorter blade and makes oblique cuts. Which changes the cuts, but not the purpose and does not reflect a change in the fantasy. Even if a serial killer thinks he is an artist, it's not like painting. It's more like music. You hear a Mozart piece and you know it's Mozart because it sounds like Mozart. But it doesn't sound exactly like the last Mozart piece you heard. It's not the same brush strokes. It's the same themes.

Signature injuries are more in line with hit men than serial killers. Not that serial killers don't have preferences... but anyone who is going to cut a woman's throat and then remove her uterus with an inappropriate knife for the job is going to look like Jack the Ripper. It's not the cuts that make the man, so to speak. It's the fantasy, whatever that is. It's why these women were found in similar poses, it's how he prioritizes what he does, it's where he puts his time and where he puts his care. And while knife cuts can tell us those things, they don't have to be the same to tell us the same story. If they were the same the story would be that he was obsessive/compulsive. And if he were that would be everywhere in those murders, and it's not.

Consistency and sameness are found far more often in tv shows and movies than in real life. I think inconsistency in cuts is very normal. Now if a body popped up where the killer used a shovel, that might raise some alarms.

[lynn cates]

method

Hello CD. Thanks.

Some of us are devotees of the notion of workmanship. I once taught a night class in logic, with low enrollment. Take for session--$600. Later, I taught a prestigious day class in medical ethics, high enrollment AND TA. Take, $4650. But the quality of lecture NEVER changed. If I were in it for money, I'd be a fool.

I am suggesting that a professional has a method of proceeding, whether or not s/he is aware of it.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

Analogies and financial arrangements aside, I simply don't see glaring dissimilarities in the cuts. Yes, the cuts are different but I think those differences can be accounted for by any number of factors as Errata and I have enumerated. Additionally, I believe that the cuts were simply a means to an end and not the end itself and so consistency would not be required or striven for.

If you want to argue that the cuts indicate a different killer, then you will need to show that all throat cuts by a particular individual will always be consistent no matter what factors or circumstances are brought into the equation. And if you want me on board, you will need to support that with crime statistics indicating that throat cutting, like the speed of light, is a constant.

Good luck with your task.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

A case could be made to suggest the throat cuts were all different.

- Nichols (two cuts - one short, one long).
- Chapman (one circular wound, overlapping).
- Stride (one short cut).
- Eddowes (ear-to-ear wound).
- Kelly (direction & number of cuts undetermined).

It might also be worth noting that neither Phillips (with Chapman), nor F. G. Brown (with Eddowes), actually say how many cuts were applied.
Both doctors only describe the extent of the wound, as found.

[Errata]

A case could be made to suggest the throat cuts were all different.

- Nichols (two cuts - one short, one long).
- Chapman (one circular wound, overlapping).
- Stride (one short cut).
- Eddowes (ear-to-ear wound).
- Kelly (direction & number of cuts undetermined).

It might also be worth noting that neither Phillips (with Chapman), nor F. G. Brown (with Eddowes), actually say how many cuts were applied.
Both doctors only describe the extent of the wound, as found.

You also have to wonder how much of the variance is due to differences in the height and neck circumferences of the victims, and whether the killer was behind the head, on the side, or on the chest of the victim.

[Errata]

Hello CD. Thanks.

Some of us are devotees of the notion of workmanship. I once taught a night class in logic, with low enrollment. Take for session--$600. Later, I taught a prestigious day class in medical ethics, high enrollment AND TA. Take, $4650. But the quality of lecture NEVER changed. If I were in it for money, I'd be a fool.

I am suggesting that a professional has a method of proceeding, whether or not s/he is aware of it.

Cheers.
LC

Well, first of all, not everyone has a work ethic, so there's that. Secondly, we have no idea if Jack was proud of what he was doing. And a lot of what you are saying is a matter of professional pride.

Lastly, I don't put near as much precision into the things I do for fun as I do for the things I do for work. I have to read a bunch of journal articles in order to do my job. And I'm very careful. I do not remotely approach my crappy science fiction novels with the same attitude or care. And my scripts I'm getting paid for are much more meticulous in their grammar and word choice than the ones I write for friends because I think it's hilarious.

I care about my professional reputation, because I'm going to get more work out of it and because what I do affects others and I need that to be positive for them. I get paid to do it. Aside from the "a girl's gotta eat" part, it's an external reinforcement to do something with care and precision. I don't care about my personal efforts. If I screw up a slab of of clay, that's fine. I do it for fun. If I never measure when cutting wood slabs, I'm alright with that.

My dad once told me that there are two types of people in the world. Those who open presents while preserving the wrapping paper, and those who just rip right into it. I think there are things Jack cares about, but preserving the wrapping paper isn't one of them.

[lynn cates]

football

Hello CD. Thanks.

As a matter of fact, I DON'T want you on board. (No offense.) I am more than happy to hold an opinion without ANY concurrence from others.

As a matter of fact, the first two sets of neck cuts were quite similar. Each had DEEP double cuts to the neck. Even in my days as a soloist I could not account for this and the sudden turn about with the next two--given a single killer.

For those who cannot see this, well "How 'bout dem Cowboys?"

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Annie

Hello Jon. Where on earth did you get that idea about Chapman?

Baxter says: "Her throat was then cut in two places with savage determination. . ." ("Ultimate" p. 105)

Don't believe what a few trolls have to say.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

packaging

Hello Errata. Thanks.

I think you are making my point. How one opens a package is instinctive. My wife, always neat, me, always a mess.

If "Jack" were not concerned, then why so skilful in the first two? Did he LOSE his previous work ethic?

Cheers.
LC