Was JtR a necrophile?

[Fleetwood Mac]

No its not. Its useless. You can't put people's mental state in a box. Psychiatry should be classed as a mental disorder.

Been saying this for years. It belongs in pre-science age of magic.

[Fisherman]

Bundy was a necrophiliac in the legal sense. Necrophilia is a crime in this country, it has a legal definition and Bundy certainly fits that definition. The law deals with the act itself. Psychiatrists deal with the whys and hows. It's why the definition differs. And paraphilias are treatable. But if you're going to fix it, you have to know whats going on. Treating someone like Bundy for Necrophilia won't work. It doesn't apply to him. Different motives, different behaviors, different focuses.

In the purely technical sense, Bundy had no sexual disorder. Which seems ridiculous given what he did to those bodies. But there is a difference between a paraphilia and a fetish, and the difference in need vs. want. A guy who likes to be spanked now and then but can sexually function without it has a fetish. The guy who cannot function sexually until he is spanked has a paraphilia. One guy is normal, the other mentally ill. Bundy's problem wasn't that he was masturbating with rotting body parts. I'm not saying that's normal, but that wasn't his dysfunction. The fact that he was serially killing people was his problem. The corpse thing is gross, but there were sites he revisited where he had no access to a body, and he did just fine. For him it was about power and ownership. His sexual relationship with those corpses was exactly the same as that of a dominant dog humping a submissive dog. It's how he expressed his dominance, not what he sexually preferred. Ergo, not necrophilia.

On a side note, bad enough to be the girlfriend right? Your boyfriend is a serial killer. Thats gonna take some therapy. But then it comes out that most of the other women he slept with during your relationship were dead at the time. Really dead. Flesh slipping off bones dead. I honestly cannot think of a way that if it were me, I would ever be able to have sex again. Thinking about every time he didn't shower first... ugh.

Ugh indeed, Errata...!

So a legal necrophiliac, but not one deep down, eh. Most interesting - thanks again for expanding on this!

The best,
Fisherman

[Errata]

Interesting, Errata. I´ve seen Bundy described as a necrophiliac many times, sometimes by authorities. This is food for thought, so thanks for posting it.

The best,
Fisherman

Bundy was a necrophiliac in the legal sense. Necrophilia is a crime in this country, it has a legal definition and Bundy certainly fits that definition. The law deals with the act itself. Psychiatrists deal with the whys and hows. It's why the definition differs. And paraphilias are treatable. But if you're going to fix it, you have to know whats going on. Treating someone like Bundy for Necrophilia won't work. It doesn't apply to him. Different motives, different behaviors, different focuses.

In the purely technical sense, Bundy had no sexual disorder. Which seems ridiculous given what he did to those bodies. But there is a difference between a paraphilia and a fetish, and the difference in need vs. want. A guy who likes to be spanked now and then but can sexually function without it has a fetish. The guy who cannot function sexually until he is spanked has a paraphilia. One guy is normal, the other mentally ill. Bundy's problem wasn't that he was masturbating with rotting body parts. I'm not saying that's normal, but that wasn't his dysfunction. The fact that he was serially killing people was his problem. The corpse thing is gross, but there were sites he revisited where he had no access to a body, and he did just fine. For him it was about power and ownership. His sexual relationship with those corpses was exactly the same as that of a dominant dog humping a submissive dog. It's how he expressed his dominance, not what he sexually preferred. Ergo, not necrophilia.

On a side note, bad enough to be the girlfriend right? Your boyfriend is a serial killer. Thats gonna take some therapy. But then it comes out that most of the other women he slept with during your relationship were dead at the time. Really dead. Flesh slipping off bones dead. I honestly cannot think of a way that if it were me, I would ever be able to have sex again. Thinking about every time he didn't shower first... ugh.

[Jon Guy]

of course he didnt stay with the bodies for long nor revisit them because he did not want to get caught!.

Very good. Therefore a necrophiliac would work out another way to get his rocks off, but the Ruipper didn`t, so he wasn`t.

which is why he took organs away..

No.
Trophies are taken by many serial killers, and has nothing to do with not having time whilst with the body.

[Abby Normal]

I don`t believe the Ripper was a necrophile.
I do think he got a kick out of killing his victim but his ultimate goal seemed to be the messing about inside them, and they had to be dead for him to do that.
He didn`t stay with the bodies very long after death, he didn`t revisit them and there is no evidence that he was whacking off at the scene. although we can`t rule that out.

of course he didnt stay with the bodies for long nor revisit them because he did not want to get caught!

which is why he took organs away.

i give up. maybe he was a necromancer.

[Nick Spring]

True Nick, but in that time he could also have had sex with Kelly whilst she was still alive. In fact there are more things pointing to the fact that the killer had been in bed with Kelly before she was killed than there is suggesting anything necrophilic. I know he was cutting her up when she was dead, but she had to be dead for him to get away with doing what he did.

Regarding the killer having time on his side with Kelly, it should be remembered that with Peter Sutcliffe`s only indoor murder, it was the victim who told him to drive to her flat, he hadn`t planned it that way. In fact he was quite surprised, and was umming and arring on whether to go into the flat. He did eventually but didn`t stay long.

Hi Jon,

Thanks for that.

Yes that Sutcliffe murder has certain parallels with Kelly and it is possible that Kelly did lead the killer to Miller Court and he wasn't expecting that.

I agree about the suggestions that Kelly could have been in bed with the killer prior to the killing but it could be just as likely that "bed scene" was acted out with someone else prior to a second visit by the Ripper.

There just seems to be a pattern of sexual gratification and fantasy that runs through right from Emma Smith to Kelly.

Best

Nick

[Jon Guy]

Yes he did have a limited time limit in which to indulge however, if you include Mary Kelly as one of his victims, this becomes his defining moment, where he has time act out his ultimate fantasy.

True Nick, but in that time he could also have had sex with Kelly whilst she was still alive. In fact there are more things pointing to the fact that the killer had been in bed with Kelly before she was killed than there is suggesting anything necrophilic. I know he was cutting her up when she was dead, but she had to be dead for him to get away with doing what he did.

Regarding the killer having time on his side with Kelly, it should be remembered that with Peter Sutcliffe`s only indoor murder, it was the victim who told him to drive to her flat, he hadn`t planned it that way. In fact he was quite surprised, and was umming and arring on whether to go into the flat. He did eventually but didn`t stay long.

[Nick Spring]

I don`t believe the Ripper was a necrophile.
I do think he got a kick out of killing his victim but his ultimate goal seemed to be the messing about inside them, and they had to be dead for him to do that.
He didn`t stay with the bodies very long after death, he didn`t revisit them and there is no evidence that he was whacking off at the scene. although we can`t rule that out.

Hi Jon,

Yes he did have a limited time limit in which to indulge however, if you include Mary Kelly as one of his victims, this becomes his defining moment, where he has time act out his ultimate fantasy.

Best

Nick

[Hunter]

The trouble is, I have an uneasy feeling that anyone who doesn't fit the boxes will simply be placed in a new box. How many boxes will we end up with?

And who wants to be placed in a box by people who spell their profession with letters they don't even need? Where's the logic in that? And besides, you might end up sharing a box with someone who really is a wierdo - like Woody Allen.

[Jon Guy]

I don`t believe the Ripper was a necrophile.
I do think he got a kick out of killing his victim but his ultimate goal seemed to be the messing about inside them, and they had to be dead for him to do that.
He didn`t stay with the bodies very long after death, he didn`t revisit them and there is no evidence that he was whacking off at the scene. although we can`t rule that out.

[Nick Spring]

Dennis Nilsen the "Muswell Hill Murderer" was also a necrophile.

I agree it is difficult to put people in boxes however, I think there is sufficient criteria to suggest the Ripper was a necrophiliac.

The question of why is of course impossible to judge.

Best

Nick

[Abby Normal]

The trouble is, I have an uneasy feeling that anyone who doesn't fit the boxes will simply be placed in a new box. How many boxes will we end up with?

I agree. And that's the problem. You'll end up with as many little boxes as there are different offenders because they are all different. I think the field errs when it tries to get to specific. Out of all those 10 sub categories, I thought none of them accurately describes the ripper, because it does not account for the removal and possible reason for the removal of organs and what they were then used for.

I go back to the just the broad description of necrophile. But only as one adjective to describe a subject. In this case necrophile serial killer, and you could probably add sexual to that also.

[Hunter]

One for each person in existence.

[Robert]

The trouble is, I have an uneasy feeling that anyone who doesn't fit the boxes will simply be placed in a new box. How many boxes will we end up with?

[Hunter]

No its not. Its useless. You can't put people's mental state in a box. Psychiatry should be classed as a mental disorder.