What did the copy-cat killer copy?

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo andy1867.

Or maybe as a distraction?..He hands here the mints/ lozenges/ nuts lol...to distract her and make his job a little easier?

Yes! That is the possibility I have been suggesting. It's misdirection. Manipulation is a relatively common attribute serial killers are adept to. If Stride was a victim of a serial killer of course. Wasn't Nichols' bonnet in her hand or close proximity to suggest she had had it in her hand? Maybe getting things confused here.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Wickeman

It is the most practical solution to the problem, but a hard suggestion to sell.

Who was it said:
"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"




In her hand, just, before she was attacked (second time), yes.
What I have yet to read is a firm & plausible explanation for the sudden grasp of her fingers, as opposed to them relaxing.

Perhaps the grabbing and pulling taught of the scarf?

[andy1867]

Or maybe as a distraction?..He hands here the mints/ lozenges/ nuts lol...to distract her and make his job a little easier?

[Wickerman]

For clarity. I respect the possibility they could have been placed in her dieing hand but it is not the most likely.

It is the most practical solution to the problem, but a hard suggestion to sell.

Who was it said:
"...when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

I would put my money on Stride having them in her hand before she was killed. I am very open to the possibility her killer gave them to her just before he attacked her.

In her hand, just, before she was attacked (second time), yes.
What I have yet to read is a firm & plausible explanation for the sudden grasp of her fingers, as opposed to them relaxing.

[curious4]

Nuts

Ahh rightio thanks both of you...saves me looking for a nut salesman with broad shoulders

Or a nutty salesman.

[andy1867]

Ahh rightio thanks both of you...saves me looking for a nut salesman with broad shoulders

[curious4]

Cachous

Pardon my ignorance but what exactly are "Cachous" is it a different spelling of Cashew?

Hello Andy,

Nothing to do with nuts - breath freshening sweets (or they were meant to do so - as well as other bodily emanations)
Came in violet flavour, as well as others. Pronounced tbhe same as the nuts though.

Cheers,
C4

[c.d.]

Hi Andy,

Cachous are small breath mints. Cashews are nuts.

c.d.

[andy1867]

Pardon my ignorance but what exactly are "Cachous" is it a different spelling of Cashew?

[curious4]

Those troublesome cachous

Apologies. No, the theory is sound enough. Man my brain. I was just specifically talking about the killer placing them in her hand after she had been killed not being really viable. Yes, it seems the killer pulled her scarf and hence the clenched fist and grip on cachous with no spilling. I see that as a very good possibility. Sorry for poor relaying. Okay, I'm done. Moving on.

Hello Dig,

No problem, really, I put my theories out there and hope they can stand on their little legs! (Except when I'm doing a spot of brain-storming, in which case anything goes!) Glad you think the idea plausible.

As far as copy-cats are concerned, I don't see why a copy cat would get more and more destructive as the murders went on. Surely a copy-cat would do just that, copy. It is no easy thing for a rational person, at least rational in the sense that they had a goal in mind, to rip open a human being.

All best wishes,

Gwyneth/C4

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Mr. Lucky.

Evidence;-
she was found dead with the cachous in her hand.

Not evidence;-
You 'think' they cannot have been placed there by the killer.
I 'think' they could have been placed there by her killer

For clarity. I respect the possibility they could have been placed in her dieing hand but it is not the most likely. Probabilistic induction. I wouldn't put my money on it. I would put my money on Stride having them in her hand before she was killed. I am very open to the possibility her killer gave them to her just before he attacked her.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Mr. Lucky.

I'm not sure that the whole Jack the Ripper story would be considered believable, if it wasn't actually true.

I tend to agree with this statement. The question is to what extent is it true?Nichols and Chapman make a ripper even if no others were by the same individual. Regardless, in one manner of thinking if others picked the up work for what ever reasons you still have a Jack in a way. It's becomes more of a philisophical matter then I think.

[Mr Lucky]

It's a matter of satisfying the evidence.

Evidence;-
she was found dead with the cachous in her hand.

Not evidence;-
You 'think' they cannot have been placed there by the killer.
I 'think' they could have been placed there by her killer

[Mr Lucky]

The appearance of Schwartz was beyond the control of the killer. So, if we can, lets just return to the original purpose of the thread and consider the behaviour of the killer at the crime scene, rather than the witnesses.

By definition the 'copy-cat killer' would be sane, or would be in a legal sense at least, due to the fact he was actively trying to avoid culpability for his crime. Similarly, the notion of the 'learning serial killer' who was actively trying to mislead the investigators then he would also be sane, for exactly the same avoiding culpability reason. So, for the purpose of this thread only, and testing out these two ideas together, we can assume the killer of Stride(for example) was legally sane.

The problem with the Stride crime scene itself for testing these ideas is the lack of clues left by the killer (I don't want us getting in to grapes/grape stalks, here btw!) that leaves us with the only a few possible clues - the position of the body and location of the blood, the scarf, the cachous in left hand and the blood clots on the back of her other hand, and that's about it.

So, let's just test the idea on the basis that the killer is sane and intelligent enough to know that he would be hung if caught and doesn't want that to happen, and then make a comparison between these two ideas, the one off copy-cat and the learning multiple killer, and how they may have interacted with the crime scene

I'm not suggesting that no other options exist.

And if the notion that testing an idea that supposes the killer was smarter than we are, is too much for anyone to bare, then they can always stick with the 'I know he was interrupted' school of thought.

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Mr. Lucky.

Nether the less, despite what you 'think' - Stride was found dead, with cachous in her hand and that's all we know.

To be as accurate as possible, not in her hand. Between two fingers. Grasped. It's a matter of satisfying the evidence. How do you get Stride's hand to clench after she's dead? Or rather, she's brought to the ground, throat slit, then cachous is stuffed between her fingers before she expires to achieve the grip on them. Sorry but not the most likely. Yes it is what I think but it is not wholly unsupported by the data.