Did he have anatomical knowledge?

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  • DJA
    *
    • May 2015
    • 4700

    #841
    Originally posted by Hunter View Post
    Kate Eddowes' killer would not have contended with much blood until the renal artery was severed during extraction of the left kidney ( which can be totally done by feel because the kidney is more firm than any surrounding organs.)
    Very well put.

    Now,if Kate had been strangled and dragged into the Square proper from behind the gate.....

    Comment

    • Trevor Marriott
      Commissioner
      • Feb 2008
      • 9449

      #842
      Originally posted by Hunter View Post
      Have you ever opened up a carcass with a knife, Trevor?
      Have you ever stabbed a human body in the abdomen several times with a long bladed knife and then drawn it up so as to see whether or not the abdomen will fill with blood?

      Comment

      • Errata
        Assistant Commissioner
        • Sep 2010
        • 3060

        #843
        Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
        Have you ever stabbed a human body in the abdomen several times with a long bladed knife and then drawn it up so as to see whether or not the abdomen will fill with blood?

        www.trevormarriott.co.uk
        Why would you do such a thing?
        The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

        Comment

        • Trevor Marriott
          Commissioner
          • Feb 2008
          • 9449

          #844
          Originally posted by Errata View Post
          Why would you do such a thing?
          I wouldn't I have no need to. I have proved my point many times over the past few years on this topic with both text and visual evidence to support it. But some have their own agenda thankfully they are in the minority.

          Comment

          • lynn cates
            Commisioner
            • Aug 2009
            • 13841

            #845
            Polly

            Hello Packer. Should that be Nichols and Chapman? Their cuts were described as skillful, Eddowes's were not.

            Cheers.
            LC

            Comment

            • Wickerman
              Commissioner
              • Oct 2008
              • 14864

              #846
              Trevor
              Proving your theory to yourself is no great challenge, when you prove it to others you can claim your laurels.
              Regards, Jon S.

              Comment

              • Hunter
                Chief Inspector
                • Dec 2009
                • 1745

                #847
                Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                Hello Packer. Should that be Nichols and Chapman? Their cuts were described as skillful, Eddowes's were not.
                None of the medicos described Nichols cuts as skillful and quite frankly, from the information we are left with, I'm at a loss to see how that could be determined as such. She was cut and maybe stabbed...that's it.

                I fail to see the point from a evidentiary perspective.
                Best Wishes,
                Hunter
                ____________________________________________

                When evidence is not to be had, theories abound. Even the most plausible of them do not carry conviction- London Times Nov. 10.1888

                Comment

                • Errata
                  Assistant Commissioner
                  • Sep 2010
                  • 3060

                  #848
                  Originally posted by Trevor Marriott View Post
                  I wouldn't I have no need to. I have proved my point many times over the past few years on this topic with both text and visual evidence to support it. But some have their own agenda thankfully they are in the minority.

                  www.trevormarriott.co.uk
                  I assume you took her Bright's disease into account? Arterial constriction, hypertension, lots of problems affecting circulation and blood chemistry.

                  Which reminds me, her kidneys must have been about twice their normal size if her disease was apparent enough to be found without blood tests (she may have had them, but that would be unusual for her class). So it was quite a bit easier to find than the average kidney. And more defined, so getting them out might not have required AS much skill as removing a healthy kidney.

                  Maybe that's why he took it. It was never going to get easier. Maybe the anomaly intrigued him
                  The early bird might get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

                  Comment

                  • curious4
                    Chief Inspector
                    • Mar 2010
                    • 1749

                    #849
                    Casebook: Jack the Ripper - Another Look at the Lusk Kidney
                    What, then, of the Bright's disease, which we are told infected both the Lusk Kidney and Eddowes= remaining right kidney? The condition of "Bright's disease " ...


                    This gives an account of what Kate probably suffered from. I don't think her kidneys were grossly enlarged.

                    Best wishes
                    C4

                    Comment

                    • curious4
                      Chief Inspector
                      • Mar 2010
                      • 1749

                      #850
                      Continued

                      Paragraphs 13 and 14
                      Last edited by curious4; 08-29-2015, 12:15 PM.

                      Comment

                      • Trevor Marriott
                        Commissioner
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 9449

                        #851
                        Originally posted by Errata View Post
                        I assume you took her Bright's disease into account? Arterial constriction, hypertension, lots of problems affecting circulation and blood chemistry.

                        Which reminds me, her kidneys must have been about twice their normal size if her disease was apparent enough to be found without blood tests (she may have had them, but that would be unusual for her class). So it was quite a bit easier to find than the average kidney. And more defined, so getting them out might not have required AS much skill as removing a healthy kidney.

                        Maybe that's why he took it. It was never going to get easier. Maybe the anomaly intrigued him
                        On come on lets stay on the side of sensibilty !

                        Comment

                        • Prosector
                          Detective
                          • Jun 2011
                          • 207

                          #852
                          Short answer - no. Not only that but even an average doctor with a rudimentary knowledge of human anatomy (and that is what most doctors then and today have) would not be able to locate organs like the kidney in semi-darkness in about five minutes. You need considerable anatomical knowledge and ability. A very skilled butcher might be able to do it but would not have done it in the specific way that the Ripper did - through a midline incision by-passing the umbilicus to the right. Butchers don't and didn't do that.
                          Prosector

                          Comment

                          • Joshua Rogan
                            Assistant Commissioner
                            • Jul 2015
                            • 3205

                            #853
                            Originally posted by Prosector View Post
                            A very skilled butcher might be able to do it but would not have done it in the specific way that the Ripper did - through a midline incision by-passing the umbilicus to the right. Butchers don't and didn't do that.
                            Prosector
                            Couldn't that be because most animals don't have human-like navels, so they don't need to?

                            Comment

                            • DJA
                              *
                              • May 2015
                              • 4700

                              #854
                              Originally posted by Errata View Post
                              I assume you took her Bright's disease into account? Arterial constriction, hypertension, lots of problems affecting circulation and blood chemistry.

                              Which reminds me, her kidneys must have been about twice their normal size if her disease was apparent enough to be found without blood tests (she may have had them, but that would be unusual for her class).
                              Her kidneys and adrenal glands had shrunk,rather than enlarged.

                              Comment

                              • DJA
                                *
                                • May 2015
                                • 4700

                                #855
                                Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                                Couldn't that be because most animals don't have human-like navels, so they don't need to?
                                Nope.

                                Comment

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