Did he have anatomical knowledge?

[DVV]

Perhaps, if we avoid narrowing the window too much by labeling him a 'specialist'?

Re-read Prosector's arguments, Jon.
They rather point to someone who would have known how to open up a body properly.

[Errata]

Hi Phil

You know, it could have been sheer luck that the killer avoided cutting through Kate Eddowes naval. I know Prosector has provided ample examples of why he believes the killer exhibited anatomical knowledge. My question would be are there any meaningless amateurish cuts on display? It does seem as if the killer did display some traits of anatomical knowledge, but I'd suggest that the pointless cuts are a manifestation of the killers spite and anger, not to mention lust.

Regards

Observer

And buttons. Every shirt I've ever owned had a button essentially on top of the navel. He may have skirted the button, thereby skirting the naval.

[DVV]

As for Kosminski, a case may be made for him not having any medical training.
Phil

Sorry, Phil, but then how would you explain this :

"I owe it all to Aaron Kosminski."

(Louis Pasteur, Days of my Years, p 167)

[Wickerman]

Re-read Prosector's arguments, Jon.
They rather point to someone who would have known how to open up a body properly.

In various ways?

[DVV]

Oh, Jon, just my broken-English.
The language of the future, mind you.

[Wickerman]

Oh, Jon, just my broken-English.
The language of the future, mind you.

Did Prosector say that these methods were mutually exclusive?

I do remember he said the long vertical cut was the preferred method of opening the abdomen up, wouldn't segmenting the abdomen into flaps follow this?

[DVV]

Did Prosector say that these methods were mutually exclusive?

I do remember he said the long vertical cut was the preferred method of opening the abdomen up, wouldn't segmenting the abdomen into flaps follow this?

Jon, opening up a body would have been just basic routine for someone who had cut two feet of intestines for practical reasons - one example among others.
Do you see what I mean ?

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Errata

And buttons. Every shirt I've ever owned had a button essentially on top of the navel. He may have skirted the button, thereby skirting the naval.

Practicality. That is an extremely reasonable notion.

[Prosector]

Sox

I think most people are agreed that he had anatomical knowledge and some degree of manual dexterity. I repeat for about the twentieth time, I don't believe he was a surgeon or even a doctor.

As for nephrectomies taking 3 hours, you are presumably talking about laparoscopic nephrectomies which do tend to take somewhat longer than open operations (and I hope we're not suggesting that Jack used a laparoscope!) but even so I don't know of anyone who takes 3 hours to do even a laparoscopic nephrectomy unless they are particularly complicated. An uncomplicated open nephrectomy should take a reasonably competent surgeon well under an hour.

And, I'm sorry, you can't just hack your way through the abdominal contents to the left kidney. If you attempted to do that there would be so much blood and liquid faeces (I'm not talking about the sold faecal contamination caused by removing the descending colon) that it would become quite impossible within a few seconds.

With all due respect I have operated on the abdomen many hundreds of times and you haven't. It's difficult to explain maybe but unless you've seen it or done it you may not be able to comprehend the amount of anatomical knowledge that is involved.

Prosector

[Cogidubnus]

Now that's what I call...

Pretty explicit testimony...

Thanks Prosector

All the best

Dave

[curious4]

Innards

Hello all,

From the sketch of Kate Eddowes' body, the piece of intestine is laid out in a straight line between the arm and the body. Could this be ritualistic or was he/she just taught to be neat? After all, if he/she just wanted access to the kidney, wouldn't it be more natural just to toss it aside? As for the diversion round the navel, couldn't he/she just have found it tough to cut through and just decided to go round? Time must have been a factor to some extent and he/she would most probably have taken the line of least resistance.

Best wishes,
C4

[Cogidubnus]

Hello Gwynneth

If I read Prosector's postings correctly, I think the navel cuts through easily enough with a sharp knife...it's just stitching which is difficult...

Interestingly enough I have a friend with whom I was discussing this evidence the other day...without saying a word she lifted her blouse from the waist revealing a North-South operational scar running clean through the navel...I didn't like to ask exacty what it was about...nor how far it extended...but it made me wonder I do confess!

All the best

Dave

[Wickerman]

Interesting Dave.

My wife is going in for a total hysterectomy in a few weeks, we'll see how the incision runs.

Here is a link which shows the midline incision avoiding the umbilicus.

http://www.atlasofpelvicsurgery.com/5Uterus/10TotalAbdominalHysterectomy/chap5sec10.html

[Wickerman]

Here is another example:
(My emphasis)

Vertical incision 1: Midline incision

Use: Virtually all abdominal procedures may be performed through this incision.

Location: in the midline of the abdomen, and can extend from the xiphoid process to just above the umbilicus. It can be continued to below the umbilicus by curving the incision around the umbilicus.

http://www.fastbleep.com/medical-notes/surgery/8/8/37

[curious4]

Navels

Hello Gwynneth

If I read Prosector's postings correctly, I think the navel cuts through easily enough with a sharp knife...it's just stitching which is difficult...

Interestingly enough I have a friend with whom I was discussing this evidence the other day...without saying a word she lifted her blouse from the waist revealing a North-South operational scar running clean through the navel...I didn't like to ask exacty what it was about...nor how far it extended...but it made me wonder I do confess!

All the best

Dave

Hello Dave,

Interesting. I believe Prosector comes from the USA, perhaps things are done differently over here. Still unwilling to completely drop the path of least resistance idea, perhaps it would have slowed him/her a little at least. I presume animals have belly buttons (of course lol), would a hunter cut though it, or go round, I wonder. Of course there would be nothing to stop a hunter also having checked out the hospital dissecting rooms.

Best wishes,

Gwyneth