Did he have anatomical knowledge?

[DVV]

Ex cathedra strategy

Hello David. Thanks.

Suspect bias? Nah, never happened before.

Cheers.
LC

May be not this way, Lynn.

[lynn cates]

wavelength: same

Hello Simon. Thanks.

Ah! A meeting of the minds!

Cheers.
LC

[DVV]

Hello Simon. Thanks.

Ah! A meeting of the minds!

Cheers.
LC

Meetic Jack the Ripper

[lynn cates]

someday

Hello David. Thanks.

Haven't met him yet. Someday?

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

If JI, a man with anatomical knowledge of animals imagined that Annie Chapman was a sheep, then why try to strangle her?

Surely he would have realised that it's pointless trying to strangle a sheep. I mean think of all that wool around the neck area. The wool would have acted as a shock absorber. JI would have known this.

And of course Annie Chapman's rings were missing.

Now, even a madman would have realised that sheep don't wear jewellery. If JI thought Chapman was a sheep why was he drawn towards her rings? I mean, bulls have rings through their noses, but sheep, as far as I'm aware, do not wear jewellery.

Of course, in his deluded madness, JI could well have imagined that some sheep wore cheap jewellery, so it's possible that he imagined the sheep wore those two missing rings. Although how they would fit over a cloven hoof presents some problems.

Anyhow, he takes the rings, but the thing is dear reader, those two rings were not found among his possessions after his arrest. They did find a pair of crappy paste and white meatal ear-rings belonging to a Friesian named Belinda, but not Chapman's rings.

What do I make of this? Well, either JI was not the man who murdered Annie Chapman, and never owned Chapman's rings. Or, he did in fact murder Annie Chapman and gave the rings to a hussy of a goat from Wapping Steps, in pledge of matrimony.

Now if Chapman had been wearing suspenders and stockings (garter belt and nylons across the pond) I could understand JI mistaking her for a sheep.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

All
Just a reminder. Prosector is not saying the killer was a Dr or someone with any real surgical experience. Just that they may have been a failed medical student ("enthusiastic amateur"?)and or someone who witnessed autopsies and or had good manual dexterity and or witnessed jewish butchering customs (although not a Jew himself).also known to police but his name does not come up.

So in terms of ruling out suspects- it would rule out any Jewish suspects (koz and the rest of the gaggle of crazy Jewish "suspects" )and any suspects that had surgical experience (chapman?).

My guess is that his suspect is one of the three nameless insane medical students mentioned in Sugden.

Hi Abby,

In Prosector's absence this appears to be an accurate enough summary of his position (apart from your final sentence, of course, which we don't know yet) although I would much prefer to see his professional opinions on the killer's knife skill and anatomical knowledge considered separately from his personal theory about the man's identity and motives. Even if he is spot on regarding the former, he could be wildly wrong concerning the latter. For that reason I have emphasised the parts in your post related to theory.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

J I

Hello Caroline.

"Now if Chapman had been wearing suspenders and stockings (garter belt and nylons across the pond) I could understand JI mistaking her for a sheep."

Ah, a discussion of JI--permit me.

We know, according to the charts/case history that:

1. JI was strongly delusional.

2. His delusions changed rapidly.

3. He tried to strangle his wife.

4. He claimed to take sheep innards and resell them.

5. He carried at least two knives in his butcher's apron.

It is not much of a stretch to accept that, when he tried to shake down Polly and Annie for change and was refused, he lashed out like a thwarted child. And strangulation seemed his preferred method.

It would be more likely that his "sheep delusion" would have occurred ONLY after the victim were subdued and lying prostrate at his feet. He might then imagine he were removing offal for market.

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

Hi Abby,

In Prosector's absence this appears to be an accurate enough summary of his position (apart from your final sentence, of course, which we don't know yet) although I would much prefer to see his professional opinions on the killer's knife skill and anatomical knowledge considered separately from his personal theory about the man's identity and motives. Even if he is spot on regarding the former, he could be wildly wrong concerning the latter. For that reason I have emphasised the parts in your post related to theory.

Love,

Caz
X

Absolutely caz. If you take out his own personal theory aspect and focus on his medical aspects only, then it basically eliminates no one.

I'm just trying to figure out who his suspect is.
However, I am also fascinated by his expert medical opinion.

Any time frame of when the big reveal is Prosector?

[Nemo]

I'd tender a guess at Prosector's suspect having a Fenian/Pheonix Park link considering the particular interest in Kelly

Nick Warren, a qualified surgeon, also thought a good knowledge of anatomy was shown in the way the killer removed the heart of Kelly

[lynn cates]

Phoenix park

Hello Paul.

"I'd tender a guess at Prosector's suspect having a Fenian/Phoenix Park link considering the particular interest in Kelly."

That would be interesting.

Cheers.
LC

[caz]

Hello Caroline.

"Now if Chapman had been wearing suspenders and stockings (garter belt and nylons across the pond) I could understand JI mistaking her for a sheep."

Ah, a discussion of JI--permit me.

We know, according to the charts/case history that:

1. JI was strongly delusional.

2. His delusions changed rapidly.

3. He tried to strangle his wife.

4. He claimed to take sheep innards and resell them.

5. He carried at least two knives in his butcher's apron.

It is not much of a stretch to accept that, when he tried to shake down Polly and Annie for change and was refused, he lashed out like a thwarted child. And strangulation seemed his preferred method.

Change 'when' for 'if', Lynn, and I'm right behind you. I may have missed it, but I have not seen the step where you demonstrate that JI ever met either victim.

It would be more likely that his "sheep delusion" would have occurred ONLY after the victim were subdued and lying prostrate at his feet. He might then imagine he were removing offal for market.

And best end of neck, perhaps? (heh-heh)

Reminds me of that old joke about the farmer, describing his first sexual experience to a mate. "It were in the middle of that field of mine just over there. In fact, her mother was watching us from the next field."

"Good lord", says the farmer's mate. "What did her mother have to say about that then?"

"Baaaaaa", says the farmer.

Love,

Caz
X

[caz]

I'd tender a guess at Prosector's suspect having a Fenian/Pheonix Park link considering the particular interest in Kelly

Oh Gawd.

Nick Warren, a qualified surgeon, also thought a good knowledge of anatomy was shown in the way the killer removed the heart of Kelly

Oh double Gawd.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

meeting

Hello Caroline. Thanks.

"Change 'when' for 'if', Lynn, and I'm right behind you."

If you like.

"I may have missed it, but I have not seen the step where you demonstrate that JI ever met either victim."

How could one do this?

But, regarding Polly, we know she was not successful on Whitechapel. The horse slaughter yard might have been a good default option. recall that Tompkins had seen women at the gates before.

Regarding Annie, we know a certain foreign sounding man had been ejected some time before from #29. He was taking a nap waiting for the market to open.

Your joke reminds me of one told me recently by one of my students. It concerned why the Scots and Irish BOTH wear kilts. (Sorry, a bit too racy to reproduce.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

pagan

Hello (again) Caroline.

"Oh double Gawd."

Polytheism? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Errata]

I'm having brain issues...

Do we know how he removed the kidney? Did he make an incision? a big flap? did he cut the whole thing out covering and all?