Did the murderer have anatomical knowledge beyond that of say a butcher?

[GBinOz]

No, he wouldn't notice. (re: Hanbury & Mitre Sq)
Only because Kelly's room offered some modicum of semblance with a mortuary, they conducted a brief post-mortem on Friday afternoon.
But this was an exception.

Thanks Jon. That answers the question I was asking. The part of Trevor's video that particularly interested me was the footage from about 19min to about 22min.

I agree with your previous comments about the couple seen by Lawende. So unless the murder took place elsewhere and the body transported to the location where it was found, the time boundaries for the murder and mutilations are that of Watkins beat, less a little time for Jack and Cathy to arrive at the scene. Thirteen to fourteen minutes at most. Would you agree?

When you referred to the people seen in St James Place at 1:30 am, are they the couple seen coming from Aldgate Station, with the man returning shortly afterwards alone?

Cheer, George

[Wickerman]

OK, so would it be expected that a doctor would notice that organs were missing at the crime scene? The questions being asked at Chapman's inquest suggest that Phillips may not have noticed that the uterus was absent at Hanbury St.

Edit: Synchronous post with Jon's answer.

No, he wouldn't notice. (re: Hanbury & Mitre Sq)
Only because Kelly's room offered some modicum of semblance with a mortuary, they conducted a brief post-mortem on Friday afternoon.
But this was an exception.

[GBinOz]

The abdomen holds the abdominal organs under pressure, by that I mean if you slice the abdomen open, the intestines erupt out of the cavity, and blood will escape.
Just like when you cut your finger, you lose blood, so the abdomen doesn't fill, it empties.

OK, so would it be expected that a doctor would notice that organs were missing at the crime scene? The questions being asked at Chapman's inquest suggest that Phillips may not have noticed that the uterus was absent at Hanbury St.

Edit: Synchronous post with Jon's answer.

[Wickerman]

well if as I postulate the organs were removed at the mortuary, and they were not found missing until that point, and the umbilicus procedure you refer to was not documented or identified until then, that would show that that procedure would add more weight to prove that the organs were not removed by the killer but by someone at the mortuary.

rememeber no organs were found to be missing at any of the crime scenes !!!!!!!!!!

But Trevor, you know very well no surgeon conducts an autopsy, or even investigates the body, at a crime scene.
Because the surgeon was following procedure, now you say "Aha!", this proves my case. No organs were found to be removed at the scene" - of course not. No-one was looking, that doesn't mean they were still intact.

[Wickerman]

The bodies of Chapman and Eddowes were found on their backs with their abdomen laid open. Would the abdominal cavity fill with blood obscuring the doctor's view of the internal organs? I am asking a question, not expressing an opinion.

Cheers, George

The abdomen holds the abdominal organs under pressure, by that I mean if you slice the abdomen open, the intestines erupt out of the cavity, and blood will escape.
Just like when you cut your finger, you lose blood, so the abdomen doesn't fill, it empties.

[DJA]

[QUOTE=Wickerman;n791671]

Hi George.

I would be more than happy to deal with that video, issue by issue, but after watching for only 15 minutes I have listed several points that can be contested.
In talking about Eddowes, Trevor has his guest comment on what was possible in only 9 minutes?

[DJA]

The bodies of Chapman and Eddowes were found on their backs with their abdomen laid open. Would the abdominal cavity fill with blood obscuring the doctor's view of the internal organs? I am asking a question, not expressing an opinion.

Cheers, George

Um,yes.
What view?

[Wickerman]

Hi Jon,

I consider myself impartial, and I have agreed with Trevor on some things, and disagreed on others. But Trevor is a retired professional, whereas most of us are armchair detectives. In relation to this topic, I located the video that Trevor made, to which I previously referred, and it is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpQqMtVVkzY&t=965s&ab_channel=dickcopy

In that video Trevor consulted a number of highly qualified and experienced medical professionals whose opinions cannot be lightly discarded. Their conclusion was that the organs that were taken away could not have been extracted from the bodies at the murder site under those conditions....

Hi George.

I would be more than happy to deal with that video, issue by issue, but after watching for only 15 minutes I have listed several points that can be contested.
In talking about Eddowes, Trevor has his guest comment on what was possible in only 9 minutes?

This is not the case if the woman in Duke St. was not Eddowes. Even the police were not certain, Lawende only offered a general description of the clothes, he wasn't allowed to see the body because he never saw the woman's face.
Trevor has his own theory, his guests are considering what was possible from what Trevor thinks happened.

If Eddowes & her killer were the people seen in St James Place at 1:30 am., not Duke St., then Trevor's timing is all out the window.

[GBinOz]

The bodies of Chapman and Eddowes were found on their backs with their abdomen laid open. Would the abdominal cavity fill with blood obscuring the doctor's view of the internal organs? I am asking a question, not expressing an opinion.

Cheers, George

[DJA]

Thought you were relying on a mortuary sketch.

[Aethelwulf]

Perhaps if you viewed a 2.41 MB version of the mortuary PHOTOGRAPH on a 120" screen,which can be zoomed in,you might change your mind.

The workmanship is amazing.Especially given that it was mostly done in the dark corner of Mitre Square.

1 - I have and I can't see anything that changes my mind. It just looks like the crudest butchery
2 - You would say that because you no doubt want to pedal your bonkers theory about Sutton
3 - Using the words 'workmanship' and 'amazing' in this context makes you sound like a right weirdo

[DJA]

so the killer just cut them open, removed organs, draped cut intestines over the shoulders but wasnt the one who took the organs away? youve got to be kidding trevor.

Maybe the dog who dropped eddowes apron in goulston street also took the organs away.lol

If you want a real laugh,have a look at Trev's video and pick the faults that his "experts" have on display.
My favorite is Kelly's left femur stripped of flesh when the autopsy notes the calf was cut.
Right up there with his 'photos" of an alleged removed kidney apparently using the well known brand of kitchen knife, sans any kidney.

[DJA]

I'm very sceptical about this. The mortuary sketch seems to show the opposite - the crudest sort of butchery devoid of skill. Any avoidance of certain areas must be seen in the context of the rather zig-zag nature of the wound. It looks far more like someone without skill just hacking away. If the killer had skill I'd expect to see a confident clean cut with a clear deliberate avoidance, not a ragged, jagged wound that probably just misses that area by chance.

Perhaps if you viewed a 2.41 MB version of the mortuary PHOTOGRAPH on a 120" screen,which can be zoomed in,you might change your mind.

The workmanship is amazing.Especially given that it was mostly done in the dark corner of Mitre Square.

[Aethelwulf]

I have no looked thoroughly at this aspect for the Eddowes murder, but the cut on her that avoided the umbilicus point to skills being exercised at the site of that murder.

I'm very sceptical about this. The mortuary sketch seems to show the opposite - the crudest sort of butchery devoid of skill. Any avoidance of certain areas must be seen in the context of the rather zig-zag nature of the wound. It looks far more like someone without skill just hacking away. If the killer had skill I'd expect to see a confident clean cut with a clear deliberate avoidance, not a ragged, jagged wound that probably just misses that area by chance.

[Abby Normal]

There is no evidence to show that any in depth examination at the crime scenes which revealed that organs had been taken before the bodies were taken to the mortuaries

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

so the killer just cut them open, removed organs, draped cut intestines over the shoulders but wasnt the one who took the organs away? youve got to be kidding trevor.

Maybe the dog who dropped eddowes apron in goulston street also took the organs away.lol