Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Skill or no Skill, that is the question

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • It appears that he was seen as a person of interest early on, due to him being a local "DR" (albeit self proclaimed and officially unqualified)

    One of the very first people (not sure if he was the first) to shine a light on Barnardo and claim he should be considered a "Suspect," was a man called McCormick (Not sure of first name, possibly Donald or Ronald?) circa 1970.

    In more recent times another man guy called Gary Rowlands reignited the fire so to speak and did some work in trying to highlight the argument to include him as a key suspect. That was around 20 years ago I believe.

    Another Casebook member told me recently that a woman called Vanessa Hayes wrote a book about him being a suspect, but she apparently was taken ill shortly before about to speak at a convention of some kind and then just disappeared?!


    There are of course other points that could be added to that list of 22 that I wrote in my previous post.

    So let's continue....

    DR Barnardo was alleged to have been responsible for kidnapping children from their parents/mothers in a bid to get them away from their destitute life in the slums.
    Now by itself those acts may be seen as somewhat honourable in their intentions, and that it was simply his methods and application that were highly dubious and unorthodox.

    However, when you consider the fact that he appeared in court on no fewer than 88 separate occasions on charges relating to kidnapping and falsifying photographs of the children he had taken/rescued, then you begin to wonder why he didn't ring more alarm bells.

    Some of the photos were alleged to have been fabricated to make the changes in the children POST rescue seem more dramatic and successful. than really was the case.

    He also took photos of EVERY child for his records. Photos of them BEFORE they were rescued and photos AFTER they had been taken in to one of his homes.

    He was also accused of neglecting some of the children's basic care needs in terms of lack of hygiene.

    It has been suggested more recently that some of those photos are particularly questionable in terms of the way the children are posed... but that's an area which I've not researched at all and so I can't comment more on that.

    The key thing to note here is that Barnardos OPENLY ADMITTED in court to kidnapping children from the slums, calling it "Philanthropic abduction."
    In court he used the the idea that the ends justified the means as his defence and despite 88 court appearances, he was never convicted despite admitting his actions himself.

    He was a popular public figure and known for his charisma and the fact he was never charged speaks volumes of just how untouchable he must have felt.
    I defy any man to walk free from court without being convicted DESPITE ADMITTING GUILT, and not feel a sense of power flow through their veins.

    It's no exaggeration when I state that he got away with so much because he was popular, confident, charming and felt that no-one could touch him, certainly not the law.

    And he spent most of his adult life pretending to be a qualified doctor and that in itself demonstrates his inherent capacity for public deception.

    Now why exactly he turned up and identified the body of Stride is rather intriguing. He wasn't a witness at the scene and so it makes me wonder why a man of his stature would bother to take the time to go and identify Stride.
    It may be that one of the other women at the lodging house mentioned him having visited, but apart from that I see no reason why he turned up to see Stride?

    It may have been a genuine concern of his and he had benign intent, but it could also be that he had to see her again because he had to leave her earlier than he wanted and he needed a sense of closure.


    Now as I say, despite all this, I am actively trying to prove myself wrong about him... but I can't find anything to put me off him as a potential suspect.

    I guess for the sake of balance it would be fair to say that he would be more recognizable than the average man on the street and so that could help to rule him out. But I think that works both ways.
    If his victims recognized him as the caring doctor who was charming and helped children, maybe that actually was his way in, to breach their psychological defences?

    What's frustrating is that this is the first time I've tried to disprove a hypothesis about a person of interest and potential suspect and it's had the opposite effect.


    Thoughts on this please?












    "Great minds, don't think alike"

    Comment


    • I am aware that I've gone way OFF TOPIC, my apologies!...


      I will cut and paste and put the above post onto the 'DR B' thread instead.
      Last edited by The Rookie Detective; 08-03-2023, 09:33 AM.
      "Great minds, don't think alike"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
        Just so you have the record straight on that, there is no established series nor victim count. Its just guesses by contemporary sources and from folks like you. Forgive me if I dont agree with those guesses.
        And yet you get upset when people don't agree with your guesses. And dismiss the theories of actual investigating police and doctors as mere guesses.

        Is the Journal of Investigative Psychology and and Offender Profiling just a guess?



        "The full picture always needs to be given. When this does not happen, we are left to make decisions on insufficient information." - Christer Holmgren

        "Unfortunately, when one becomes obsessed by a theory, truth and logic rarely matter." - Steven Blomer

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Fiver View Post

          And yet you get upset when people don't agree with your guesses. And dismiss the theories of actual investigating police and doctors as mere guesses.

          Is the Journal of Investigative Psychology and and Offender Profiling just a guess?


          I think you need to refresh yourself on just what these investigations actually revealed. As for the doctors, who said I set their opinions aside as guesses. Never said that at all. In fact Ive defended Phillips observations on Chapman and Bonds on Mary Kelly. Your link leads to some interesting material, but when you enter data as Known that isnt actually Known, then what do you really have? Like a victim count for example.

          Comment


          • Just so you dont miss the point....in the opening paragraph..."An evaluation of the murders revealed that six of those murders were linked by a number of distinct, personal signature characteristics, including picquerism (speculative), overkill (1), incapacitation, domination and control, open and displayed (2), unusual body position, (3) sexual degradation (4), mutilation,(5) organ harvesting (6), specific areas of attack, preplanning and organization(speculative), and a combination of signature features.(?)​"

            1. If the killer made some additional cuts after the murder cuts, that in of itself is not Overkill. Marys murder surely was, Annies wasnt.
            2. The position that 3 of those victims were in was the result of the killer setting up the body so he could have access to the abdomens. the abdomen mutilations were obviously part of his objective. "Displayed" is the author of the papers interpretation.
            3. There is no hard evidence that any of these women were "degraded" based on their sexuality.
            4. 1 victim had no mutilations, 1 victim included in this supposed Canonical Group of Six was stabbed repeatedly, not "mutilated".
            5. Only 3 victims of this group of 6 had organs taken.
            6. There has never been a consensus whether the killer was Organized or just Opportunistic.
            7. Signature features? Like women being murdered with knives? What signatures are shown as evident in all 6 of this alledged series?

            When you start off with indefensible presumptions what kind of output might you expect?

            One additional point...there is no evidence at all that the cutting was a source of sexual pleasure to the killer, so Piquerism is also presumed prematurely.
            Last edited by Michael W Richards; 08-04-2023, 03:40 PM.

            Comment


            • If you intend to recreate an event that was recorded only by witness statements, be they police, medical personnel, bystanders, passers by, friends or acquaintances..etc...in order to get a factual reconstruction of the activity in focus, then you will always run the risk of inaccurate interpretation of the data. So when someone stamps these murders as "series", without having any supporting evidence other than official opinions or "guesses" based on the cumulative data gained from the above, then its a premature proclamation. And after 135 years, thats the reality. We have never had enough evidence to have "series" by Jack the Ripper, we only have peoples personal interpretations of the data.

              Which is why we have some officers who say he was known and caught, some who say they had no idea who was to blame, some who openly speculated about a suspect or 2 and presumed motives, and some who believe the killer was protected by higher powers. And most of them thought 5 victims, not 6 as the paper you referred me to begins.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                Just so you dont miss the point....in the opening paragraph..."An evaluation of the murders revealed that six of those murders were linked by a number of distinct, personal signature characteristics, including picquerism (speculative), overkill (1), incapacitation, domination and control, open and displayed (2), unusual body position, (3) sexual degradation (4), mutilation,(5) organ harvesting (6), specific areas of attack, preplanning and organization(speculative), and a combination of signature features.(?)​"

                1. If the killer made some additional cuts after the murder cuts, that in of itself is not Overkill. Marys murder surely was, Annies wasnt.
                2. The position that 3 of those victims were in was the result of the killer setting up the body so he could have access to the abdomens. the abdomen mutilations were obviously part of his objective. "Displayed" is the author of the papers interpretation.
                3. There is no hard evidence that any of these women were "degraded" based on their sexuality.
                4. 1 victim had no mutilations, 1 victim included in this supposed Canonical Group of Six was stabbed repeatedly, not "mutilated".
                5. Only 3 victims of this group of 6 had organs taken.
                6. There has never been a consensus whether the killer was Organized or just Opportunistic.
                7. Signature features? Like women being murdered with knives? What signatures are shown as evident in all 6 of this alledged series?

                When you start off with indefensible presumptions what kind of output might you expect?

                One additional point...there is no evidence at all that the cutting was a source of sexual pleasure to the killer, so Piquerism is also presumed prematurely.
                I'll take my lead from someone who might know what they are talking about. e.g.
                • Keppel narrowed down a large list of suspects until he was left with 25, including Ted Bundy. He confronted Bundy, but Bundy dismissed the conversation​
                • Keppel was asked to assist in the Green River Task Force for the investigation of a set of murders in Washington
                • Keppel retired as chief criminal investigator for the Washington State Attorney General's Office in 1995
                Some relevant publications
                • Serial Violence: Analysis of Modus Operandi and Signature Characteristics of Killers (with William Birnes) (2008; ISBN 9781420066326)
                • Profiling: Principles, Processes, Practicalities (with David V. Canter) (2010; ISBN 9780131192768)

                My assessment: Keppel - knows his sh*t

                Michael W Richards - knows jack sh*t

                You're welcome

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

                  I'll take my lead from someone who might know what they are talking about. e.g.
                  • Keppel narrowed down a large list of suspects until he was left with 25, including Ted Bundy. He confronted Bundy, but Bundy dismissed the conversation​
                  • Keppel was asked to assist in the Green River Task Force for the investigation of a set of murders in Washington
                  • Keppel retired as chief criminal investigator for the Washington State Attorney General's Office in 1995
                  Some relevant publications
                  • Serial Violence: Analysis of Modus Operandi and Signature Characteristics of Killers (with William Birnes) (2008; ISBN 9781420066326)
                  • Profiling: Principles, Processes, Practicalities (with David V. Canter) (2010; ISBN 9780131192768)

                  My assessment: Keppel - knows his sh*t

                  Michael W Richards - knows jack sh*t

                  You're welcome

                  Knew.

                  Comment


                  • You take whatever you want from whomever you like, because I never said to anyone that Im right and you're wrong...like you just did. You have no idea who I am or what I know, although I will share this one bit with you, I know an a** when I see one. And I know a guess from a fact.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

                      I'll take my lead from someone who might know what they are talking about. e.g.
                      • Keppel narrowed down a large list of suspects until he was left with 25, including Ted Bundy. He confronted Bundy, but Bundy dismissed the conversation​
                      • Keppel was asked to assist in the Green River Task Force for the investigation of a set of murders in Washington
                      • Keppel retired as chief criminal investigator for the Washington State Attorney General's Office in 1995
                      Some relevant publications
                      • Serial Violence: Analysis of Modus Operandi and Signature Characteristics of Killers (with William Birnes) (2008; ISBN 9781420066326)
                      • Profiling: Principles, Processes, Practicalities (with David V. Canter) (2010; ISBN 9780131192768)

                      My assessment: Keppel - knows his sh*t

                      Michael W Richards - knows jack sh*t

                      You're welcome

                      I forgot to mention, taking someone elses "lead" is a good practice for you. Some lead, some follow.

                      Comment


                      • Heres a great example of how informed some of these profilers and enforcement people can be..."According to a 1999 issue of Texas Monthly, the Killing Fields — the name given to a strip of abandoned oil fields near Interstate 45 — have long been known as a favorite dump site for killers. In 1984, news went national with the discovery of four naked, carefully posed, female murder victims. At the time, law enforcement had a suspect: Robert Abel, a NASA engineer who worked on the original Apollo missions. Abel was around 60-years-old when the murders — and more disappearances — happened, and the same law enforcement officials who considered him a suspect were also forced to admit that they had absolutely no evidence that he had anything to do with the killings."

                        They named a suspect without any evidence link to any of the murders. Something like stating a lone man killed 5 women in Whitechapel in 1888, without a single shred of evidence that one murder had any link with another other than the historical timing and geographical range, and zero evidence that a lone man killed them all.

                        Now I wish I sold swampland here.
                        Last edited by Michael W Richards; 08-04-2023, 06:53 PM.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
                          You take whatever you want from whomever you like, because I never said to anyone that Im right
                          I'm familiar with your posts from before you emerged from your long break. Then, as now, they all have the same annoying, overbearing, pompous know-it-all attitude.
                          Cheers mike

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

                            I'm familiar with your posts from before you emerged from your long break. Then, as now, they all have the same annoying, overbearing, pompous know-it-all attitude.
                            Cheers mike
                            I just seem to be a know it all when Im discussing with know very littles. Cheers back at ya.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                              I just seem to be a know it all when Im discussing with know very littles. Cheers back at ya.
                              A little snippet of yours from the JFK thread below - your usual know it all attitude that irritates. Stop acting like your god's gift to every subject and people might listen. The JFK stuff does work people up, myself included and I've been pretty rude to certain people on here, but you act like this on every subject as far as I can see.

                              'Did either of you illustrious critics look at the Zapruder tape and the specific frames I cited. I think not. Otherwise you might have learned something. Not surprising that you also buy the bs in this case too. IF youd looked'
                              Last edited by Aethelwulf; 08-04-2023, 08:02 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

                                A little snippet of yours from the JFK thread below - your usual know it all attitude that irritates. Stop acting like your god's gift to every subject and people might listen. The JFK stuff does work people up, myself included and I've been pretty rude to certain people on here, but you act like this on every subject as far as I can see.

                                'Did either of you illustrious critics look at the Zapruder tape and the specific frames I cited. I think not. Otherwise you might have learned something. Not surprising that you also buy the bs in this case too. IF youd looked'
                                If youd also posted the rebuttal snippet I was reacting to, it might be in bettter context. If youll also note, the opinion is not just my own.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X