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  • Pub or Street?

    Where did JtR approach his victims? In the pub on the street? Did he buy them a few drinks first or did he simply proposition them on the street? Is there any evidence in favour of one over the other?

    Tristan

  • #2
    Are you sure they didn't approach him?
    Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

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    • #3
      Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post
      Are you sure they didn't approach him?
      They could well have done. If that was the case did they approach him in the street or in a pub I wonder?

      Tristan

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      • #4
        Nichols might have approached Henry ..... oops Jack outside his workplace.

        Possibly not for the first time.
        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

          They could well have done. If that was the case did they approach him in the street or in a pub I wonder?

          Tristan
          The street.

          Getting a sense of police beat timespans, requires standing fairly still.

          PC Watkins or Harvey may have realized they saw someone in a fixed position, who didn't seem suspicious at the time, but who in hindsight gave them seconds thoughts.
          Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

          Comment


          • #6
            That is called loitering with intent.

            Something police are trained to lookout for very early in their training.
            My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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            • #7
              Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

              The street.

              Getting a sense of police beat timespans, requires standing fairly still.

              PC Watkins or Harvey may have realized they saw someone in a fixed position, who didn't seem suspicious at the time, but who in hindsight gave them seconds thoughts.
              Intriguing.

              There is a location at which it is possible to keep an eye on the corners of Mitre Street, Duke Street and a section of Aldgate High Street in between without being detected.

              Here is the Google street view you get at this point...

              https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.51...4!8i8192?hl=en

              Going back and forth 180 degrees there is an unbroken view from the corner of Mitre Street/Leadenhall Street into the top east section of Jewry Street.

              This includes the space once occupied by the dwelling of Dr Sequeira.

              Looking from an upper floor window someone could have viewed passing figures around that location without detection.



              Of course, this could just be a coincidence. Merely an observation.
              Last edited by Curious Cat; 02-27-2020, 11:54 PM.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Curious Cat View Post

                Intriguing.

                There is a location at which it is possible to keep an eye on the corners of Mitre Street, Duke Street and a section of Aldgate High Street in between without being detected.

                Here is the Google street view you get at this point...

                https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.51...4!8i8192?hl=en

                Going back and forth 180 degrees there is an unbroken view from the corner of Mitre Street/Leadenhall Street into the top east section of Jewry Street.

                This includes the space once occupied by the dwelling of Dr Sequeira.

                Looking from an upper floor window someone could have viewed passing figures around that location without detection.



                Of course, this could just be a coincidence. Merely an observation.
                Great work!
                Except that Jack does want to be detected, and approached, by prostitutes.
                This occurs, but he continually turns them away until the timing is right.
                To avoid the charge of loitering with intent, he has to be engaged in a valid activity, and looking respectable helps too.

                So what is the valid activity?
                Well, he has a parcel with him, or at least, that's what it looks like from a distance, or in darkness.
                Actually, it's a bundle of copies of a publication, which he hands out to interested passers-by.

                So what is the publication?

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                Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

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                • #9
                  Click image for larger version

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                  My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                  • #10
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                    Andrew's the man, that is not blamed for nothing

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Losmandris View Post
                      Where did JtR approach his victims? In the pub on the street? Did he buy them a few drinks first or did he simply proposition them on the street? Is there any evidence in favour of one over the other?

                      Tristan
                      hi los
                      probably both. he probably started off in the pub drinking and then took his hunt to the streets after they closed. I think the only solid evidence that he may have met one in the pub is with stride based on the evidence of best and gardner. and perhaps Kelly if blotchy was her killer.
                      "Is all that we see or seem
                      but a dream within a dream?"

                      -Edgar Allan Poe


                      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                      -Frederick G. Abberline

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                      • #12
                        Hi AbNorm,

                        Do you think he was drunk when operating on Eddowes?
                        My name is Dave. You cannot reach me through Debs email account

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                          hi los
                          probably both. he probably started off in the pub drinking and then took his hunt to the streets after they closed. I think the only solid evidence that he may have met one in the pub is with stride based on the evidence of best and gardner. and perhaps Kelly if blotchy was her killer.
                          I wonder if this would have a bearing the type of killer he was? i.e. if he was a Ted Bundy type killer did he meet them in the pub and lure them out with him or if he was more a lunatic type did he approach them on the street, where conversation was less important?

                          I suspect he was more of the former rather than the latter personally.

                          Tristan

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Losmandris View Post

                            I wonder if this would have a bearing the type of killer he was? i.e. if he was a Ted Bundy type killer did he meet them in the pub and lure them out with him or if he was more a lunatic type did he approach them on the street, where conversation was less important?

                            I suspect he was more of the former rather than the latter personally.

                            Tristan
                            yes agree. but remember bundy also approached women out in the street, and also still used a ruse to get them where he wanted them. I seriously doubt the ripper was the lunatic type that just attacked women on the street with little to no conversation/rusing beforehand.

                            and if blotchy was her killer, we have evidence that he probably met her in a pub and rused her all the way back to her place.
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NotBlamedForNothing View Post

                              Great work!
                              Except that Jack does want to be detected, and approached, by prostitutes.
                              This occurs, but he continually turns them away until the timing is right.
                              To avoid the charge of loitering with intent, he has to be engaged in a valid activity, and looking respectable helps too.

                              So what is the valid activity?
                              Well, he has a parcel with him, or at least, that's what it looks like from a distance, or in darkness.
                              Actually, it's a bundle of copies of a publication, which he hands out to interested passers-by.

                              So what is the publication?

                              Click image for larger version

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ID:	732631
                              Of course I mean undetected in terms of watching police patrol patterns. The killer wouldn't want to be caught loitering or draw attention to themselves as a suspect.

                              PC Holland was patrolling along Aldgate High Street when the alarm was raised. He initially went to Mitre Square with PC Harvey to see the body. This would be between about 1:45am and 1:48am. PC Holland then goes to call Dr Sequiera, living just round the corner at Jewry Street. He's clearly well known for PC Holland to know exactly where to go to fetch him to the scene. So add another minute or two for PC Holland to arrive, knock on Dr Sequiera's door and for Sequiera to respond. This takes us to about 1:50am. By 1:55am Dr Sequiera is dressed and at the scene.

                              Fully dressed? Or just partially dressed? Unfortunately we'll never know as no-one describes his attire, but he has the total sum of about 3 minutes to get ready before leaving his house and going with PC Holland to Mitre Square.

                              Does he use that time to get dressed or clean himself up? Was he in bed when called or was he awake? If he was woken that would add to the response time and shorten the time he has to get ready. If he was still awake - and therefore already dressed - what is he doing in those 3 minutes rather than just putting on a coat and leaving straight away?

                              I do find it interesting that when asked at the inquest if the killer would be covered in blood from carrying out the mutilations on Catherine Eddowes he responds with, 'Not necessarily.' Not possibly, or hard to say, but 'Not necessarily.' Is that because he knew? A knowing nod to himself that no-one else would get?

                              If only PC Holland had been at the inquest. May have had some extra information to work with.

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