Patterns formed by murder locations

[RivkahChaya]

Some direct Manson quotes from a late-80s interview he did with Geraldo Rivera:

"I'm Jesus Christ. Whether you want to believe it or not, I don't care."

"I never killed anybody. Anybody that knows anything knows that. I never killed anybody."
RIVERA- "Would they be dead if it wasn't for you?"
"What do you mean? The world wouldn't be here if it wasn't for me! If it wasn't for me you'd all be gone!"

I meant his reference to rising out of the race wars as a messiah, back in the late 1960s. Even then, he was mostly just trash-talking and making up stuff, because he'd talked about race wars on the ranch, but at one point, he'd talked the usual hippie stuff about a "new dawn" where the races got along with each other.

I don't think he believed what he was saying to Geraldo Rivera, either. If he didn't say things like that, he'd stop getting interviewed by TV talk show hosts. He's an attention whore; he gets rewarded for behaving like that. He's also a little guy (he's like 5'2), but most of the other people in prison are afraid of him-- not that I think he's housed in the gen pop, but still, even the other prisoners treat him "special."

I also think when he acted as his own attorney, he knew he'd lose, but he knew he'd probably lose anyway, and he also knew that people acting pro se in death penalty cases get a lot of leeway, so he decided to go out with a bang. The federal government happened to put out the moratorium on the death penalty before his sentence got carried out (I think it was less than two years later), which is how he got his commutation to life.

I was very little, so I don't remember myself, but my friends who are a bit older tell me that one argument people used to use against the moratorium when it was in front of the US supreme court, was that it would apply to Charles Manson.

Anyway, while I think that he is, in common parlance, a "nut job," I don't think he is legally insane, and I think he is perfectly capable of distinguishing fantasy from reality.

In case you didn't know, he didn't really kill the people at Sharon Tate's house as part of some race war. He killed them because he didn't realize that Sharon Tate and Roman Polanski had rented the house. The people he thought still lived there were people he thought had screwed him out of a record contract, and this was not the first time he physically attacked someone he thought had screwed him out of a chance to be a rock star, albeit, the first time, he did it in person.

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"Possibly. But that depends on whether you seek only one killer."

Mmm. And then you need to find yourself someone who DOES logically correlate with all the murder spots.

Tough work, that.

Sally:

"Please tell me you don't look for a Masonic symbol."

I donīt look for a masonic symbol.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

physical

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"And then you need to find yourself someone who DOES logically correlate with all the murder spots."

I'd prefer one who PHYSICALLY correlates with the murder spots. MUCH easier.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

"I'd prefer one who PHYSICALLY correlates with the murder spots. MUCH easier."

Fine by me. Too.

Whatīve you got?

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

giving up

Hello Christer. Thanks.

"Whatīve you got?"

Why, nothing. Recall, I gave up on that "one killer" rot ages ago.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

I was more thinking placing any one potential killer PHYSICALLY at EITHER spot, Lynn. I know about your preferences otherwise.

the best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

In donde esta?

Hello Christer. Thanks. Which spots? All five locations?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

I was more thinking placing any one potential killer PHYSICALLY at EITHER spot, Lynn. I know about your preferences otherwise.

My...matters I wouldn't even ask Lynn's missus about!

All the best

Dave

[RivkahChaya]

Maybe it wasn't in the shape of a cross-- we're connecting the dots wrong; it was supposed to be the shape of a KITE, because JTR is a notoriously bad speller (prasarved, nise, etc.) and he misspelled KIKE. Just another dig at Jews again.

"From Hell" could even be a reference to the Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu which is heavily plagiarized in Protocols of the Elders of Zion.



Check your sarcas-o-meters before replying.

[lynn cates]

preferences

Hello Dave. Cute.

I prefer pure Darjeeling, OK? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Lynn:

" Which spots? All five locations?"

If you please, Lynn.

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

location, location, location

Hello Christer. Thanks. Although nearly any resident of the East End could have passed all the locations, I do not know of a single "suspect" who can be placed at all five. At most, I know of a handful of people who can be placed at ONE location near the time of a murder.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Correct , Lynn.

I canīt even think of any Eastender who had a reason to BE at all the murder spots at the approximate times of the killings - but for one man.

I canīt think of any suspect that was in very close physical contact with any of the victims - but for one man.

Nor can I think of any suspect that used a phony name when speaking to the police about the killings - but for one man.

Come to think of it, I canīt think of any suspect either, that was implicated as having lied about his actions on the murder night by a PC connected to the case - but for one man.

And fascinatingly, its actually the same man in every instance.

Which is why I think that looking for "patterns" in the murder spots may be as useless at it is entertaining. Looking for a comfort zone applicable on a man that is surrounded by anomalies, double identities and quite possibly a tailormade lie to get him through the police net on the murder night is much more my cup of tea.

The best,
Fisherman

[curious4]

Maybe it wasn't in the shape of a cross-- we're connecting the dots wrong; it was supposed to be the shape of a KITE, because JTR is a notoriously bad speller (prasarved, nise, etc.) and he misspelled KIKE. Just another dig at Jews again.

"From Hell" could even be a reference to the Dialogues in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu which is heavily plagiarized in Protocols of the Elders of Zion.



Check your sarcas-o-meters before replying.

Battle lines drawn, bureaucrat Armegeddon booked in some weeks hence, leaving me free to join the fray again - at least for a while.

Dear Rifkah,

I don`t think your Kike/Kite theory has much of a chance of getting off the ground (couldn't resist that). Also "Kike" is more of an american expression and I think you would find it hard to place it in the cockney of the 1880s.

Jack "a notorious bad speller"? How would you explain the K in "Knif" and the "W" in whores? The Openshaw letter is a prime example of bad spelling - intentional or otherwise, - for example "nife", "mi" but in general shows few of the pointers which would make one suspect dyslexia.

I think you are unwise to reject Swedish research because it doesn`t agree with your own experience - your ideas seem rather out of date. Puttting dyslexic pupils in a class of special needs children would be counter-effective, to say the least. As at least two of the Swedish royal family are dyslectic, perhaps the condition has received more attention over here.

I think it has been very well-established by now that Jack probably tried to incriminate the jews of the area, either through genuine anti-semitism or because he saw the way the wind was blowing in the police investigation. The Chief Rabbi of the time was swift to challenge and to disprove various theories. There was, as there is now, a good deal of anti-semitism among the ignorant and also in many who should have known better. Whether or not the killer was jewish, christian, british or "foreign" is, in my opinion, unimportant and leads us no further on into the question of who Jack was and why he did what he did (unless, of course, he was what is termed "a religous maniac" and I can see no obvious indications of this. The jewish "angle" has been discussed more than fully and takes us nowhere. Kosminsky was suspected not because he was a jew, but because he lived in the area and was mentally unstable. Although the fact that he happened also to be jewish probably fitted the agenda of some of the police at the time.

My views and I stand by them.

Best wishes,
C4

"Americans speak in catch-phrases. It leaves their minds free for more important things, like sex and making money." Somerset Maugham

[RavenDarkendale]

Interesting, I had not thought that the bodies were placed in the spots was compatible with the crime scenes.

LC if no suspect can be physically placed at all five crime scenes (and recall that I think six, adding Martha Tabram), can any be proven not at all crime scenes? Well, Prince Eddy for one.

Your "multiple murderers" stance is interesting and very possibly correct, but I don't think we can completely rule out one lone knife man!

These so-called patterns remind me of James Randi's statements in his book Flim-flam, concerning UFO abductee's Betty and Barney Hill. Betty Hill claimed she had been given a "star map". The different stars were connected in a pattern which supposedly lead to the extraterrestrial's home world. Randi pointed out that removing the lines made the stars just random dots which could be connected in any way by drawing lines. You would have to have a starting point, and direction in which to draw lines in a preconceived pattern to use the map as drawn. Say you start at alpha-centari, draw lines to three given directions, form an arrow using these three points, then a line from the tip of the arrow on a 45 degree angle to find a planet. No mention of a starting point, no map.

This goes for any pattern in the Ripper killings, you need a starting point and a direction in which to draw your pattern, with a preconceived shape in mind. I believe the British would say: "Bullocks!"