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It's 3rd September 1888 what should the Police have been doing?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

    No Michael I'm unsure whether Liz Stride was a Ripper victim for the reasons you are stating. However her being killed just before a Ripper victim is a massive coincednce which begs the question was she a Ripper victim or not?
    and by a man wearing a peaked cap, same as eddowes. she was a ripper victim
    "Is all that we see or seem
    but a dream within a dream?"

    -Edgar Allan Poe


    "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
    quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

    -Frederick G. Abberline

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
      The fact she is killed by throat slit makes her one of 3 women that night, so "double event" aside, its clear more than just Jack cut womens throats that Fall. Knowing that its awfully hard to reconcile a serial mutilator with what was done to Liz Stride. When assessing Liz its important to remember more than Jack carried knives, more than Jack used them, but when he used them so he could mutilate their abdomen,.... Then that was Jack.
      number three was a domestic, the perpetrator known. has nothing to do with the ripper case.
      "Is all that we see or seem
      but a dream within a dream?"

      -Edgar Allan Poe


      "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
      quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

      -Frederick G. Abberline

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

        and by a man wearing a peaked cap, same as eddowes. she was a ripper victim
        Peaked caps were extremely common at that time.
        Kind regards, Sam Flynn

        "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

          Peaked caps were extremely common at that time.
          yes and the ripper was wearing one the night of the double event
          "Is all that we see or seem
          but a dream within a dream?"

          -Edgar Allan Poe


          "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
          quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

          -Frederick G. Abberline

          Comment


          • #50
            We could just as easily be looking at two different men wearing an extremely common type of headgear.
            Kind regards, Sam Flynn

            "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
              We could just as easily be looking at two different men wearing an extremely common type of headgear.
              I doubt it. reinforced by the suspicious peaked cap man sighted in church st inbetween the two murders
              "Is all that we see or seem
              but a dream within a dream?"

              -Edgar Allan Poe


              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

              -Frederick G. Abberline

              Comment


              • #52
                As I say, peaked caps were extremely popular form of headgear. Perhaps to emphasise this, Schwartz's man was wearing a black peaked cap, but Lawende's man was wearing a grey one.
                Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post
                  As I say, peaked caps were extremely popular form of headgear. Perhaps to emphasise this, Schwartz's man was wearing a black peaked cap, but Lawende's man was wearing a grey one.
                  how grey? ; )
                  "Is all that we see or seem
                  but a dream within a dream?"

                  -Edgar Allan Poe


                  "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                  quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                  -Frederick G. Abberline

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                    how grey? ; )
                    That's an interesting question. For Lawende to have perceived the cap as grey in low lighting, then it could well have been a fairly light grey, otherwise he would have taken it to be... um... black, like the one Schwartz's man wore.
                    Kind regards, Sam Flynn

                    "Suche Nullen" (Nietzsche, Götzendämmerung, 1888)

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                      number three was a domestic, the perpetrator known. has nothing to do with the ripper case.
                      Its a marker for the fact that other people slit womens throats that Fall, domestic or otherwise. How do you know Liz wasnt a "domestic", or Mary Kelly for that matter? You can presume...you've shown a proclivity for that..but murders are murders, unless accompanied by some extraordinary attributes. The only reason to conclude Liz Stride was killed by a "ripper" is because so many presume it was Jack who also killed Kate. Like 2 killers cant operate on one night. The Brown case shows that on one night 3 women had their throats cut, and extraordinary attributes to the murder are evident in just one of them.
                      Michael Richards

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                        Its a marker for the fact that other people slit womens throats that Fall, domestic or otherwise. How do you know Liz wasnt a "domestic", or Mary Kelly for that matter? You can presume...you've shown a proclivity for that..but murders are murders, unless accompanied by some extraordinary attributes. The only reason to conclude Liz Stride was killed by a "ripper" is because so many presume it was Jack who also killed Kate. Like 2 killers cant operate on one night. The Brown case shows that on one night 3 women had their throats cut, and extraordinary attributes to the murder are evident in just one of them.
                        Mary Kelly's murder though looks to all intents and purposes the opposite of a domestic murder though Michael. The mutilations on Mary Kelly are thankfully extremely rare. You can't have things both ways Michael.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

                          Mary Kelly's murder though looks to all intents and purposes the opposite of a domestic murder though Michael. The mutilations on Mary Kelly are thankfully extremely rare. You can't have things both ways Michael.
                          Good point, JW.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by John Wheat View Post

                            Mary Kelly's murder though looks to all intents and purposes the opposite of a domestic murder though Michael. The mutilations on Mary Kelly are thankfully extremely rare. You can't have things both ways Michael.
                            Explain how that Mary Kellys murder doesnt look like a domestic murder? She is in her home, in her bed, undressed, in the middle of the night, and her killer didnt break in so he is almost certainly there with her permission. He may well be the man she was in a love triangle with, no-one has identified the other "Joe" yet. You are assuming that very few people cut up other people, well, I can name a bunch of cases where a man kills his wife/lover and then chops her up. He didnt get into the murder desiring to chop up anyone, in most cases its to dispose of the parts later. Or to disguise the manner in which she was killed. In this case however the killer is fortunate, he doesnt have to dispose of the body at all, he just has to chop her up and leave her there so that everyone, just like you, will believe the mad Ripper man killed her. The previous kills, with widely published details, and the fact that no-one had been caught created that opportunity. I think Marys killer just took what was given to him.
                            Michael Richards

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post

                              Explain how that Mary Kellys murder doesnt look like a domestic murder? She is in her home, in her bed, undressed, in the middle of the night, and her killer didnt break in so he is almost certainly there with her permission. He may well be the man she was in a love triangle with, no-one has identified the other "Joe" yet. You are assuming that very few people cut up other people, well, I can name a bunch of cases where a man kills his wife/lover and then chops her up. He didnt get into the murder desiring to chop up anyone, in most cases its to dispose of the parts later. Or to disguise the manner in which she was killed. In this case however the killer is fortunate, he doesnt have to dispose of the body at all, he just has to chop her up and leave her there so that everyone, just like you, will believe the mad Ripper man killed her. The previous kills, with widely published details, and the fact that no-one had been caught created that opportunity. I think Marys killer just took what was given to him.
                              If Mary Kelly's murder was a domestic even made to look like a Ripper murder the murderer went over the top. I doubt this was the case though its far more likely the Ripper found himself with an opportunity to murder indoors.

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