Victorian Work Schedules

[Damaso Marte]

Tabram, C1, and C5 were all killed on worknights: a Monday night, a Thursday night, and another Thursday nights. It seems a good bet that all of them died between 3 and 4 AM.

A strong argument for those arguing that the ripper killed on his way to work (or his way home from work).

But then you have to deal with the other killings. C2 probably dies around 5:30, though many on this forum do dispute this and argue for a 3 AM time. But there's no argument about C3-4 dying between 1-2 AM.

Absent denying both C3 and C4 (as of course some people do) being ripper killings, advocates of a ripper with a regular job have some explaining to do.

C2 through 4 all die on either a Friday or Saturday night, though. Today, this wouldn't be considered a worknight. Of course Cadosch was on his way to work. But how widespread would working Saturdays be for a Whitechapel resident?

[Michael W Richards]

Tabram, C1, and C5 were all killed on worknights: a Monday night, a Thursday night, and another Thursday nights. It seems a good bet that all of them died between 3 and 4 AM.

A strong argument for those arguing that the ripper killed on his way to work (or his way home from work).

But then you have to deal with the other killings. C2 probably dies around 5:30, though many on this forum do dispute this and argue for a 3 AM time. But there's no argument about C3-4 dying between 1-2 AM.

Absent denying both C3 and C4 (as of course some people do) being ripper killings, advocates of a ripper with a regular job have some explaining to do.

C2 through 4 all die on either a Friday or Saturday night, though. Today, this wouldn't be considered a worknight. Of course Cadosch was on his way to work. But how widespread would working Saturdays be for a Whitechapel resident?

Hi Damaso,

I think you may have the data skewed;

Tabram: Killed Aug 7th, Tuesday morning, Monday was a Bank Holiday
Nichols: Killed Aug 31st, Friday morning
Chapman: Killed Sept 8th, Saturday morning
Stride: Killed 30th September, Sunday morning
Eddowes: Killed 30th September, Sunday morning
Kelly: Killed November 9th, Friday morning of Mayors Day

Any pattern that emerges from the above is that the killings took place on weekends or Friday or Monday. There were no killings during the mid-week, and no killings attributed to Jack from the 10th of every month the killings took place in until the 30th of that same month. Excluding November. All killings were within the same 10-12 day period of each month....from the 30th to the 10th of the next.

Since many workers worked 7 days a week it can be said that its probable the man, if working, was off by midnight on those days.

What is less clear is why the same 20 days each month were kill free.

Best regards,

Mike R

[Damaso Marte]

Michael,

I count very early AM hours as the "night" of the previous day. This is, I admit, my bias as somebody who has a habit of staying up late and waking up late. When I am out at 2 AM on a Saturday, I still think of it as "Friday night". Somebody who goes to bed early and wakes up at 3 AM might think of it as the morning of that day instead, of course. Who knows which camp the ripper fell into, insomniac or early riser.

[Michael W Richards]

Michael,

I count very early AM hours as the "night" of the previous day. This is, I admit, my bias as somebody who has a habit of staying up late and waking up late. When I am out at 2 AM on a Saturday, I still think of it as "Friday night". Somebody who goes to bed early and wakes up at 3 AM might think of it as the morning of that day instead, of course. Who knows which camp the ripper fell into, insomniac or early riser.

Hi Damaso,

I think many of us refer to night as being the end part of a previous day, but when you are dealing with precise days, dates and times as we must in these cases,.. which day/date is as important as whether it was AM or PM.

As I pointed out there were no midweek killings, nor killings from the 10th of the month to the 30th of that same month in August, September or October, so there are factors here to consider well beyond what sleep habits the man or men had. There is a pattern...random, or not.

Best regards,

Mike R

[Sally]

There is a pattern.

I'm sure it hasn't escaped notice that the 'late' kill days are the last day of the month in all cases, and that the 'early' kill days are consecutive. Perhaps that was significant to the killer, some personal ritual (without wanting to sound as if we should start talking about Mason....).

Its one of the things that makes me want to include Tabram amongst the Ripper victims. Perhaps, remembering how he'd killed Tabram, he was particularly inspired to kill when that time of the month came around again - and the same after Nichols. Perhaps these became special times of the month for him.

[Damaso Marte]

I'm more interested in discussing time of day than time of month, but FWIW, I looked into this a few years ago and I think every single murder took place during a crescent moon...except Tabram.

[Bridewell]

Hi Damaso,

Which murders do you mean exactly when you refer to 'every single murder'?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Wickerman]

But how widespread would working Saturdays be for a Whitechapel resident?

If you are able to obtain a copy of Fishman's, East End 1888, you will likely see that Saturday as a work day was pretty common for the average East Ender. Sunday was the only day of rest, but not always, not in every industry.

Work was so hard to get and to keep, people did not care what day it was, you have to eat every day, right

Regards, Jon S.

[Michael W Richards]

I'm more interested in discussing time of day than time of month, but FWIW, I looked into this a few years ago and I think every single murder took place during a crescent moon...except Tabram.

Hi Damaso,

Unless you are putting together a Lunar Phase theory, something examined by myself and others here over the years....(so its something I personally wouldnt advise doing here again), the moon phases should be left out of this discussion.

The T.O.M. and T.O.D. are really quite separate issues....the T.O.M. as pointed out has clear and distinct parameters, the T.O.D. shows only that the murders were after midnight and before dawn.

I personally think that a productive line of inquiry would be on the quiet intervals rather than the specific hour of any C5 murder. There are many plausible, reasonable answers to the hour...and just a few plausible ones to the intervals.

Just a thought.

Cheers,
Mike R

[K-453]

The killings taking place in the first ten days of the month could have something to do with money rather than work schedules.

Theory: "Jack" got his payment on the 1st, and spent the following nights in pubs and such, until he was broke after about one week. This kept him away from the streets for the rest of the month.
This would mean, the murders where not his only intention, but part of his nightly activities.

[Michael W Richards]

The killings taking place in the first ten days of the month could have something to do with money rather than work schedules.

Theory: "Jack" got his payment on the 1st, and spent the following nights in pubs and such, until he was broke after about one week. This kept him away from the streets for the rest of the month.
This would mean, the murders where not his only intention, but part of his nightly activities.

Thats a clever interpretation K. I personally believe that the intervals cannot be explained by work or city departures because its improbable one man was responsible for the 5 deaths attributed to Jack. Without knowledge of a verifiable motive or numbers of assailants the interesting 20 day lapse isnt really all that mysterious, in that, it is an attempt to account for just one mans whereabouts.

Best regards,

Mike R

[K-453]

Here's another theory: "Jack's" typical cooling-off period happened to be 20 - 30 days.

I remember a case of a brutal serial rapist who attacked quite regularly once a month. This had nothing to do with his work schedule, but with the urge building up.


IF there is really a pattern in "Jack's" killings. I rather see feverish activity during one month (31. August - 30. September), with - maybe - the Tabram murder as "test" some time before, and with the Kelly murder as "latecomer" five weeks later.

Even the claim "Jack killed at weekends" is not true. Murders happened in Thursday / Friday nights. Not exactly weekend. Even the proximity to weekends could be coincidence.

(I don't think it is, but it could.)