October's London Fog

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Barbara

Think the second link in Archaic's Post #23 explains much of the reasons behind the presence of "Smog", far deadlier and far more disturbing than ordinary fog...and conversely also the reasons for it's absence...

All the best

Dave

[Beowulf]

Hi Barbara

Think the second link in Archaic's Post #23 explains much of the reasons behind the presence of "Smog", far deadlier and far more disturbing than ordinary fog...and conversely also the reasons for it's absence...

All the best

Dave

Am I being dense? That does not explain why there was no smog in November, 1888.

From the article, "As the smoke coming out of London's chimneys mixed with natural fog, the air turned colder. Londoners heaped more coal on their fires, making more smoke. Soon it was so dark some said they couldn't see their feet.

By Sunday, Dec. 7, visibility fell to one foot."

This 1952 smog went to the first week of December. The fog of 1888 went to October only? I'm sure they were still burning coal in November.

You know, come to think of it, Mary Kelly was killed inside. Maybe there was still a problem with visibility? Maybe this is why he hit upon the idea of an interior dwelling for his next murder?

Now that could be a reason why she was chosen, which I've always wondered. Did he look for a gal with an apartment after his October refrain, due to fog/smog.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Barbara

Taken from said link:-

A period of cold weather, combined with an anticyclone and windless conditions, collected airborne pollutants mostly from the use of coal to form a thick layer of smog over the city. It lasted from Friday 5 to Tuesday 9 December 1952, and then dispersed quickly after a change of weather.

In other words, in November 1888 there presumably weren't anticyclonic and windless conditions, which were a prerequisite (along with pollution) for smog formation...the quote also suggests, that even if formed, smog can in any event be easily dispersed by meteorological changes...like wind and rain (not exactly uncommon in the UK in November!)

All the best

Dave

[Beowulf]

Hi Barbara

Taken from said link:-



In other words, in November 1888 there presumably weren't anticyclonic and windless conditions, which were a prerequisite (along with pollution) for smog formation...the quote also suggests, that even if formed, smog can in any event be easily dispersed by meteorological changes...like wind and rain (not exactly uncommon in the UK in November!)

All the best

Dave

Oh, yeah. Ok. Now I understand that part. Still wondering if he chose her for her apartment though. If all through October he was muzzled due to weather it may have led to his new plan, 'inside'.

I don't say this is in my mind as an absolute, but I do wonder if he kind of stalked for a bit, looking for a girl who had an interior living space, where there was some privacy. Of course doss houses were out.

But the fog may have influenced him in this direction.

[Cogidubnus]

I think the increasingly heavy police presence may have both muzzled him, and influenced the choice of an indoor victim...alternatively, or even additionally, there could well be other factors of which we know little as yet...

Or alternatively, for a completely different take on the whole thing, you could ask Lynn's opinions...now they're interesting...and I mean that in all sincerity!

All the best

Dave

[Beowulf]

I think the increasingly heavy police presence may have both muzzled him, and influenced the choice of an indoor victim...alternatively, or even additionally, there could well be other factors of which we know little as yet...

Or alternatively, for a completely different take on the whole thing, you could ask Lynn's opinions...now they're interesting...and I mean that in all sincerity!

All the best

Dave

Oh, yes. I do believe the heavy police presence had a lot to do with it. He was not a mentally well guy, but appears he sure didn't want to get caught, did he

Yes, Lynn. I understand you do not believe there was a ripper at all. So is this a good time to ask for a brief summary of your opinion, of which I have been meaning to delve into anyway.

[Archaic]

Killer Fog 1952 & "Pea-Souper"

Hi Carol.

You asked if the photo in post #28 was taken in black & white or color. From the look of it, I think it must have been taken with black & white film.

Interesting that you remember "pea-soupers" as having been really yellowish...so they must have been the color of pea-soup as well as the density of pea-soup?

- That must seem obvious in the UK, but we're much more used to green peas in the U.S. rather than yellow peas, so we don't automatically picture "pea-soup fog" as being of a yellowish color. Guess I've always thought of it more as a metaphor for the fog being extremely thick & dense rather than as a description of its color too...but a yellow tint makes them sound even more dreadful! Did the yellowish cast give everything a sort of sludgy, greasy look? Ick.

I looked for a yellowish photo of thick London fog but didn't see any. Perhaps someone else can locate a good one?

I wonder if the addition of automobiles in the 20th C. changed the color of London's fog/smog to any appreciable extant? Leaded fuel automobile emissions must have been awful combined with coal fire- and as the NPR radio article pointed out, England was using very low-grade coke (coal fuel) in the aftermath of WWII, because the supplies of superior-grade fuel had gone for the war effort.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Robert]

I've only ever heard of green peas in the UK. The only time I've seen any other coloured peas was black ones (cooking error).

Yellow would make sense of the sulphur pollution I guess.

[DGB]

Split pea soup is yellow.

That is the only contribution I can make

[Carol]

Hi everyone!

Before I married and came to Sweden I couldn't understand why the pea-souper fogs were yellow. As far as I knew pea soup was green! Like Archaic I assumed it was because they were so thick. Then, as I say, I came to Sweden. Thursday is traditionally 'ärtsoppa dag' (pea soup day). Even in these modern times you can find pea soup available in many cafés and restaurants on a Thursday. Guess what colour this pea soup is? Yup - you got it in one! A very good representation of a London pea souper both in colour and thickness! DGB is right - the soup is made with split yellow peas.

Carol

[Carol]

I've only ever heard of green peas in the UK. The only time I've seen any other coloured peas was black ones (cooking error).

Yellow would make sense of the sulphur pollution I guess.

Hi Robert,

Sulphur - of course! Never thought of that, although I've sometimes wondered why the fogs were yellow.

Carol

[Carol]

Hi Carol.

You asked if the photo in post #28 was taken in black & white or color. From the look of it, I think it must have been taken with black & white film.
Did the yellowish cast give everything a sort of sludgy, greasy look? Ick.

I looked for a yellowish photo of thick London fog but didn't see any. Perhaps someone else can locate a good one?

I wonder if the addition of automobiles in the 20th C. changed the color of London's fog/smog to any appreciable extant? Leaded fuel automobile emissions must have been awful combined with coal fire- and as the NPR radio article pointed out, England was using very low-grade coke (coal fuel) in the aftermath of WWII, because the supplies of superior-grade fuel had gone for the war effort.

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi Archaic,

I can't remember that the fog looked greasy, although it had greasy little particles in it.

I'll see if I have a coloured photo of a pea souper fog in one of my books, but somehow I doubt it.

That's a really interesting thought in your last paragraph. I'll see if I can find an 'on the spot' description of a pre-car era pea souper.

Carol

[Robert]

Hi Carol

I think bronchitis used to be a big problem, probably because of those fogs.
As a kid, I always found fogs to be grey, but then I was only on the outskirts of London.

There used to be a soup called green soup, which was green. No idea what went into it though.

[Carol]

Hi Carol

I think bronchitis used to be a big problem, probably because of those fogs.
As a kid, I always found fogs to be grey, but then I was only on the outskirts of London.

There used to be a soup called green soup, which was green. No idea what went into it though.

Hi Robert

I can remember bronchitis being the main problem with the fogs. The local hospitals in the Medway towns were always full of patients with bronchitis related illnesses both during and directly after the fogs. The death rate among the elderly always rose dramatically at these times. The November 1962 pea souper was the last one I can remember. The local authorities (Chatham, Rochester and Gillingham ones) then brought in very strict regulations with regard to the domestic use of coal - it was called 'smokeless fuel'. It must have helped!

I can remember that green soup. I don't think I liked it very much.

Are you originally from Kent yourself? If so - can you remember the summer 'hop-picking' early mornings in late August when there was a heavy fog (uncoloured) that started to lift by 8 a.m. when the sun could be faintly seen. By 11 a.m. the sun was fully out and the fog nowhere to be seen. The rest of the day was always a perfect summer day - warm, sunny and calm.

I'm writing about the 1950's when hops were still picked by hand. My mother's sisters used to go hop-picking for a local farmer every year. The farm was at the bottom of Bluebell Hill and they all lived at the top of Bluebell Hill. On one day late each August Mum used to take my brother and myself for an outing on the bus to the farm. She helped her sisters pick the hops while we cousins thoroughly enjoyed ourselves swinging on the vines and other such helpful things. I can remember that as soon as we arrived home Mum told Freddy and me to 'take off ALL your clothes and put them in the cupboard under the stairs'. The very obvious reason being that we STANK of the smell of hops! Happy days!

Carol

[Robert]

Hi Carol

No, I'm not from Kent, but I understand it's always been a beautiful county (the garden of England). Do they still have that man of Kent/Kentish man thing going on there?