A contender for the knife?

[niko]

Dr. T. R . Killeen

Why do we always assume that JtR carried only one knife?

Hi every one, I for one think that Jack the Ripper used more than one knife, a large knife for the initial attack and mutilation's, and a smaller knife for the removal of the organ's.

I also believe that Martha Tabram is a Ripper victim. A statement given at Tabram's inquest by Dr. T. R. Killeen, makes me understand that two knives were used on the mortal attack on Tabram. Dr. T. R. Killeen said that the large knife COULD of been a sword bayonet or a dagger, I don't think nothing is mentioned of a one-sided blade or a double-edge blade. The three knives in the picture below are all large knives but totally different to each other.




From left to right -

Late 1900 "Muella" hunting knife - early 1900 military bayonet - late 1800 early 1900 "Sabatier" french cook's knife.

So you can make an idea of their size, the french cook's knife mesure's a total length of 43 cm (16.9 inches), the blade alone mesure's 28.5 cm (11.2 inches) long.(any of these three knives COULD be a good "contender" I think's, as Jack the Ripper's large knife, if he ever did use one) all the best, agur.

niko

[RedBundy13]

knife

Why do we always assume that JtR carried only one knife?

I've always assumed that JtR had only used one knife no matter how many different accounts the ME's had given. Most serial killers today use the same weapon over and over (but not all). They stick with what works. Now I'm not saying that he couldn't have used more than one knife, it's just that in Victorean England at that time knifes were more expensive than they are today. They were not something that you would normaly just throw away and go get another one because it was dirty. Alot of people, even in the upper classes, had used only one knife for many different chores. Now, of coarse if the Ripper was a butcher, leather worker or in the medical profession then he would have had access to many different knives, I still believe though he would have stuck to the one weapon that was working for him. At the most, maybe two for all his crimes. What do other people think, one knife, or many different ones?

[niko]

re knife

hi Redbundy13, just one question, you say "It's just that in Victorean England at that time knifes were more expensive than they are today". On an other thread that I read, I got the understanding that knives were very easy to aquire in 1888, which is the correct answer, knives were cheap or were they expensive in 1888? All the best, agur.

niko

[RedBundy13]

hi Redbundy13, just one question, you say "It's just that in Victorean England at that time knifes were more expensive than they are today". On an other thread that I read, I got the understanding that knives were very easy to aquire in 1888, which is the correct answer, knives were cheap or were they expensive in 1888? All the best, agur.

niko

Hi niko, Prob a little of both id guess, easy to find but more expensive then we are used to. Obviously they didnt have assembly lines in China like we do today, but everybody still had a knife but i would guess they didnt have too many. They were still making knives the old fashioned way back then.

[curious4]

Clasp knife

Hello Carol,

If you include Annie Millwood and Ada Wilson as possible early JTR victims, it is a fact that they were attacked with a clasp knife. Such a knife could easliy be hidden in a pocket and most Victorian tools were very well made, so might well be strong enough to do the murders and mutilations. I have my own idea that Jack saw himself as a hunter, so why not?

Best wishes
C4

[Carol]

Hello Carol,

If you include Annie Millwood and Ada Wilson as possible early JTR victims, it is a fact that they were attacked with a clasp knife. Such a knife could easliy be hidden in a pocket and most Victorian tools were very well made, so might well be strong enough to do the murders and mutilations. I have my own idea that Jack saw himself as a hunter, so why not?

Best wishes
C4

Hi C4,

Interesting post of yours. Jack seeing himself as a hunter - definitely food for thought!

Carol

[niko]

Hello Carol,

If you include Annie Millwood and Ada Wilson as possible early JTR victims, it is a fact that they were attacked with a clasp knife. Such a knife could easliy be hidden in a pocket and most Victorian tools were very well made, so might well be strong enough to do the murders and mutilations. I have my own idea that Jack saw himself as a hunter, so why not?

Best wishes
C4

Hi Curious4, I too think Jack saw himself as a sort of a hunter, or at least he acted like one. Firstly he stalked his prey, secondly he choose or waited untill in the correct place for the attack, thirdly the kill and fourthly the mutilation's and removal of organ's, was the last metioned his trophy ?

I find it hard to believe that Jack's hunting knife would be a clasp knife (penknife) dueing to medical report's which I think mention that a six or eight inch bladed knife was used in the murder's (I can't imagine an eight inch clasp knife (penknife).

Jumping a bit to the Tabram thread where it's being questioned if two different bladed weapon's were used on Tabram. Well I think if Jack did think himself a hunter that he would have more than one knife.

Hunter's usually adore their weapon's and also usually have more than one weapon, it's common for hunter's to have a shot-gun and a rifle, imagine a hunter who has two shot-gun's and three rifle's a total of five weapon's, who say's that Jack didn't adore his weapon's and also had two or even five knives of which he had to choose from, for different night's, just a thought, all the best, agur.

niko

[Wickerman]

I find it hard to believe that Jack's hunting knife would be a clasp knife (penknife) dueing to medical report's which I think mention that a six or eight inch bladed knife was used in the murder's (I can't imagine an eight inch clasp knife (penknife).

Hi Niko.
The suggestion is that he upgraded from a pocket-knife to a larger fixed blade.

Incidently, the term 'pen-knife' came from the need to carry a knife to constantly re-sharpen the quill for writing. This is when gentlemen used to write with feathers (a quill).
The true 'pen-knife' had a very small blade about 1" - 1.25" long.
Today, what we call a 'pen-knife' is the Victorian Clasp-knife, the name was somehow tranferred, and of course its design has evolved also.

Jumping a bit to the Tabram thread where it's being questioned if two different bladed weapon's were used on Tabram. Well I think if Jack did think himself a hunter that he would have more than one knife.

We cannot exclude the possibility that he carried more than one knife, it is mentioned because there are some who do exclude the possibility.

Regards, Jon S.

[Robert St Devil]

A hop knife.

[Harry D]

On October 1st 1888, a bloodstained knife was found in Whitechapel Road. This knife was similar to the ones used in the Phoenix Park Murders of 1882.

[Joshua Rogan]

A hop knife.

Are you suggesting that Kate's wounds were self-inflicted?

[Robert St Devil]

No Joshua.

It,s based on a thought that i mentioned in another thread. I,m suspicious of how City Police viewed John Kelly based on how Mr. Crawford ,interviews, him and the deputy at the Oct 4th inquest.

Kelly was a hop picker, so the curiousity became, what type of knife did hop pickers use?

Net had a few examples, resulting in hop knives and cabbage hop knives. I,m keeping in mind that September was a height for hop picking.

[Pierre]

If the killer had hold of her from behind and was trying to cut her throat I would imagine that she was trying to prevent this and therefore moving her head about frantically.

"Trying" to cut her throat?

Regards, Pierre