Jack the Ripper(s)

[Tom_Wescott]

BEWARE...Rant following

Gotta love it. I post that there's a lot of strong evidence implicating a known Ripper suspect in the sending of the Lusk letter/kidney, along with Lusk's treasurer, Joseph Aarons. Does anyone care? Of course not. But start a thread about George Hutchinson, or post a photo of the 2nd constable to make it to the scene at Mitre Square, and the thread will be 20 pages long by noon. The priorities of Ripperologists, as evinced by the boards at the present moment, are absolutely backwards. Reminds me a few months ago when I posted that I'd heard through the grapevine that a major find on Kosminski had been made. Not a single post in response and only ONE PM to ask about it...from Rob House. Remarkable.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

Hi Abby,

The motive was simply money. The Vigilance Committee was broke and literally up to the day that kidney was posted they were pleading for money in the press, saying that the moneys promised them were not being payed. Classic publicity stunt. For any hoax to work, you need a dupe, and that was Lusk, which is why it was so easy for the police to believe them.

Following the receipt of the kidney, Lusk called Aarons and the other heads of the Committee over to look at it and decide what to do. Your Ripper books will tell you they took it straight to a doctor and then the police, but this is not true. They took the From Hell letter and the 'Box of Toys' postcard straight to the Evening News - the same paper that employed Le Grand in the Packer hoax. This assured maximum publicity. When the medical report came back inconclusive as to whether it could be Eddowes' kidney, Joseph Aarons blatantly lied to the press, attributing a lot of nonsense to Dr. Openshaw, forcing Openshaw to then talk to the press and put it straight.

As you can see, when you consider the actions of Le Grand and Aarons, it's virtually impossible to escape the conclusion that they hoaxed the entire Lusk episode. And for the record, I do not think the kidney sent to Lusk came from Eddowes. Le Grand would not have been that stupid.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

One of the most important post I've ever read, sincerely.
Don't be negative, Tom.

[The Good Michael]

Tom,

We are waiting for the Kosminski book, and by known suspect... known to you, or known to a contemporary? I'm guessing you are talking about LeGrand.

Plus, we don't want to argue with you because you are always right. You just tell us what's what and we nod our heads and eat our soylent green and we are good to go.

Mike

[Tom_Wescott]

We are waiting for the Kosminski book,

Yes, we are. But the 'major Kosminski find' was, I believe, by someone else, not known to me, and I'm not sure it's known to Rob, so we might be waiting a while longer. For the record, I have no idea WHAT the find is, only that I heard the buzz.

and by known suspect... known to you, or known to a contemporary? I'm guessing you are talking about LeGrand.

You apparently didn't scroll back. Yes, I'm talking about Le Grand, who was a contemporary suspect. And I believe he was the only contemporary suspect employed by Lusk, the only guy to get a human organ in the mail at the time.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

One of the most important post I've ever read, sincerely.
Don't be negative, Tom.

Thank you for that, Dave. Important post or not, your reply is appreciated.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[DVV]

An important post, indeed.
Not the kind of post you want to argue with, but the kind of post you learn from.
That's what I meant.

[mariab]

Come on, Tom, I've only been in Ripperology for 8 months and it hasn't taken long to figure out that hardly 30% of Casebookers are interesting in new results vs. routine theorizing. Plus, people prefer to stay in their own niche of interest (Hutch, Kozminsky, etc.) and don't visit other threads.
It'll require an article (or most possibly, multiple articles) to steer people's interest towards the Joseph Aarons/Le Grand possibility of a hoax. For me it got my full attention from the first time you mentioned it (in September), but probably because I'm used to be researching such possibilities from my own job.

Tom, I doubt there's a new find pertaining to Kozminsky, I've been following up.

To The Good Michael:
Quite atypically, ;-) this is not an ego trip Tom's Michael. Lynn Cates and I are also researching Berner Street too and there is undeniable evidence that Aarons and Le Grand might have been working on schemes together, as well as that the WVC was seeking out the IWEC for collaboration. I'm trying to get more information on how things worked inside of the IWEC between William Wess and Philip Krantz. And yes, it might involve Le Grand as well as a political agenda by the Okhrana. There might be some articles coming out pertaining to this at some point in the summer. What makes the research real slow is that it also requires the translation of several Arbeter Fraint issues.

[The Good Michael]

Tom,

By the way, you have single-handedly pushed LeGrand to the fore of suspectology. Why do you think Lusk needed the money that he might garner from being involved in a hoax? Or are you stating he was just a pawn and Aarons and LeGrand staged everything, but left Lusk out of the loop because if he didn't know, he would be more frightened and believable?

Mike

[mariab]

Or are you stating he was just a pawn and Aarons and LeGrand staged everything, but left Lusk out of the loop because if he didn't know, he would be more frightened and believable?

You got it, Michael. Possibly.

[Tom_Wescott]

Thank you Dave, Maria, and Good Michael,

It'll require an article (or most possibly, multiple articles) to steer people's interest towards the Joseph Aarons/Le Grand possibility of a hoax.

Actually, you need a book. You do not get taken seriously until you've published a book.

Why do you think Lusk needed the money that he might garner from being involved in a hoax?

Both Lusk and Aarons were broke. Aarons bought The Crown public house in 1882, but was forced to sell it in 1889. Lusk subsequently filed for bankruptcy and it was found that his books from 1888 on were 'unsatisfactory', meaning they were at best incomplete and 'cooked' at worst. You must keep in mind that the Vigilance Committee was created as a venture for profit. They spent their days begging the government to put out a reward and for the public to give them money. If they succeeded in capturing the Ripper, they got to keep the money AND the big rewards. If they failed, they at least got to keep the money. Again, Ripper authors don't put it to you like this, but that's the bottom line. As for why I feel Lusk was a dupe, that's my gut impression, and my gut isn't often wrong. There's nothing in the evidence I have to suggest that Lusk was part of the plot. But a plot there most certainly was.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[mariab]

Actually, you need a book. You do not get taken seriously until you've published a book.

Considering all the crappy books that've gotten published in Ripperology, which by the way are far worse than the odd crappy articles out there, I'm sure that people have stopped paying so much respect to books. In my own field, my book is not out yet (possibly by the end of 2011), and yet I'm quite known and respected due to different findings/conference papers/articles. I know of people who've published a book and it was so bad, it ruined their reputation.

No worries Tom, despite your frequent pub talk people seem to take you seriously.

As of Lusk having been the dupe, I find it suspicious that he cooked the books prior to his own bankruptcy, but I guess that lots of Victorians cooked their books.

PS.: I don't wanna start whining too (this is Tom's department), but I think I'm getting ill. I stupidly slept with the window open, woke up wrapped up in 3 pieces on my side (with my nose on my knees and my feet over my head), I think I've pulled a muscle on my back which has started twiching weirdly, and now I'm suddenly burning up with fever. Ugh. I hope it all goes away by tomorrow.

[DVV]

As of Lusk having been the dupe...

....my opinion is that Tom should open a thread about this.

[mariab]

Yes, I apologized for this yesterday, we keep highjacking the wrong thread.
I won't be researching any of this stuff before 2 weeks – I got some other stuff lined up on deadline first.

[Tom_Wescott]

....my opinion is that Tom should open a thread about this.

Nah, let 'em buy my book.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

As of Lusk having been the dupe, I find it suspicious that he cooked the books prior to his own bankruptcy, but I guess that lots of Victorians cooked their books.

I didn't say he 'cooked' the books, I said that's the worst interpretation you could place on it. He may have just been a lowsy book keeper. His wife died from complications from diabetes in April of 1888.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott