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  • #46
    It's interesting that the Emma Smith attack is reportedly documented as by multiple assailants, then came Tabram, featuring multiple "inexperienced“, frenzied wounds by 2 different knifes. Nichols appears to have been done by just one assailant, and from then on, only in the Stride case we have (possibly questionable) evidence of 2 assailants participating. Annie Millwood was reportedly attacked by just one assailant.

    To Corey:
    By the by, Corey, Bernardo and Homolka might not even qualify as "lust murderers“, esp. compared to the Ripper case, since in the B-H case it was the kidnappings which were instrumental, with the murders just being “utilitarian“.
    Best regards,
    Maria

    Comment

    • #47
      Annie Millwood has nothing to do with the Ripper. As for Tabram, only ONE of the hands showed signs of frenzied inexperience (with a pen knife). The other hand successfully (and strongly) made a single stab to the heart with a larger knife. In the case of Eddowes, we have a second man inquiring after a couple with Mr. Blenkinsop. In the case of Kelly, we have a possible lookout standing at the end of the court.

      Yours truly,

      Tom Wescott
      Last edited by Tom_Wescott; 03-08-2011, 08:30 PM.

      Comment

      • #48
        1.
        Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
        Annie Millwood has nothing to do with the Ripper.
        Why would you say that?

        2.
        Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
        As for Tabram, only ONE of the hands showed signs of frenzied inexperience (with a pen knife). The other hand successfully (and strongly) made a single stab to the heart with a larger knife.
        Precisely.

        3.
        Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
        In the case of Eddowes, we a second man inquiry after a couple with Mr. Blenkinsop.
        I've heard of that, whether it's a reliable story or not is another matter.

        4.
        Originally posted by Tom_Wescott View Post
        In the case of Kelly, we have a possible lookout standing at the end of the court.
        Yes, I've thought of that too while typing my last post.

        Emma Smith and points 2-4 from above fit with 2 assailants initially working in tandem, changing into an MO of a dominant partner and an assisting partner from Nichols on.
        Best regards,
        Maria

        Comment

        • #49
          Originally posted by DVV View Post
          Hi Jon
          There's no "Whitechapel murder" in 1887 that I'm aware of, Jon.
          Your right just not paying attention..sorry typo for 1888.

          Originally posted by DVV View Post
          The Ripper has been characterized as a "necro-sadist". Couldn't this explain that ?
          All the best
          I'm not familiar with that term. Is this quote lifted from a website accurate?
          Debating Chikatilo...
          "...psychiatrist Alexandr Bukhanovsky, who refined the profile of the killer, describing him as a “necro-sadist”, or someone who achieves sexual gratification from the suffering and death of others...."

          Is this what you think?
          'Jack' made his victims suffer?.. they died in seconds!
          Regards, Jon S.

          Comment

          • #50
            Hello Wickerman,

            I think if you actually read the second part of my essay I sent, and I in no way blame you for this if you haven't time, but I discuss necro-sadism. Indeed Jack the Ripper was a necro-sadist, and the particular reason that they didn't suffer is exactly why he is so. Necro means dead obviously and sadism is pleasure from sexually humiliating a woman or man. Now necor-sadist's like to defemanize the body, the cadaver of the dead.

            The term is correct and fully justified. Though that defenition you provided falls short of correct.
            Washington Irving:

            "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

            Stratford-on-Avon

            Comment

            • #51
              I can't speak to this reference:
              Reading the World
              http://books.google.ca/books?id=8IxM8F912EsC&pg=PA134&lpg=PA134&dq=necro+sadist&source=bl&ots=nWTMyDJR1o&sig=5pLqu26Iwi1BWLKifimhzmwA9yQ&hl=en&ei=GsV2Tcu2LZSJrQGho5XTCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CEkQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=necro%20sadist&f=false
              In Reading the World Dianne C. Luce explores the historical and philosophical contexts of Cormac McCarthy's early works crafted during his Tennessee period from 1959 to 1979 to demonstrate how McCarthy integrates literary realism with the imagery and myths of Platonic, gnostic, and existentialist philosophies to create his unique vision of the world.Luce begins with a substantial treatment of the east Tennessee context from which McCarthy's fiction emerges, sketching an Appalachian culture and environment in flux. Against this backdrop Luce examines, novel by novel, McCarthy's distinctive rendering of character through mixed narrative techniques of flashbacks, shifts in vantage point, and dream sequences. Luce shows how McCarthy's fragmented narration and lyrical style combine to create a rich portrayal of the philosophical and religious elements at play in human consciousness as it confronts a world rife with isolation and violence.

              But, let me quote what is written about necro-sadism.

              "They distinguish between the true necrophile and the necro-sadist, who might murder then sexually assault his victim: "the sex act [necro sadist] performs is usually an extension of his violation of his victim"

              What particular 'sex act' is identifiable in order to label 'Jack' a necro-sadist?
              Regards, Jon S.

              Comment

              • #52
                Hello Wickerman,

                The mutilation is the sexual act. It is seen as such by the killer.
                Washington Irving:

                "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                Stratford-on-Avon

                Comment

                • #53
                  Originally posted by corey123 View Post
                  Hello Wickerman,

                  The mutilation is the sexual act. It is seen as such by the killer.
                  I begg to differ, the article goes on...

                  "....necro sadist Sergeant Bertrand, who described his first sexual experience with an exhumed body"
                  Then goes on to describe kissing her body all over, and "passionate ceresses".

                  This is not mutilation, this is genuine making love to the dead.
                  Regards, Jon S.

                  Comment

                  • #54
                    Annie Milwood is a ripper victim.

                    Or not.

                    Comment

                    • #55
                      Wickerman,

                      We aren't speaking of that case Jon, we are obviously speaking of Jack the Ripper...and obviously the murders were sexual in nature.

                      Anyhow, this book you are citing has abosultely nothing that really makes me believe it is truly worth reading. Nor does it seem to describe necro-sadism if it denies the fact that mutilation is a form of sexual gratification.
                      Washington Irving:

                      "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                      Stratford-on-Avon

                      Comment

                      • #56
                        Originally posted by corey123 View Post
                        Wickerman,

                        We aren't speaking of that case Jon, we are obviously speaking of Jack the Ripper...and obviously the murders were sexual in nature.
                        I'm aware of that Corey, but it's the "obviously" that I have trouble with.
                        I don't think it is obvious at all. In fact I think it is all very subjective.

                        Originally posted by corey123 View Post
                        .......Nor does it seem to describe necro-sadism if it denies the fact that mutilation is a form of sexual gratification.
                        I have never used the term before, in fact up until I left this forum 3 years ago I could say with some degree of confidence the term was never used.
                        The impression I am getting is that different sources choose to make this term "necro-sadism" mean what they want it to mean to suit their arguments.
                        Regards, Jon S.

                        Comment

                        • #57
                          Hello Wickerman,

                          The book you cite is not one of scholarly worth, so I find it's verses a bit flawed for research. And no I am not saying it isn't possible that these murders were not sexual but how would they not be? If he wanted organs and only organs, please do explain the cuts to the face? Please do explain the cuts to the vagina? Please do explain why these organs were wanting in the first place? Do explain why in sexual murders organs are usually missing, I am but using logic.

                          Whether a term is used or not is no fair way to refute its existance just because you hadn't known of it. I use the word how it is read, necro means dead, and sadism is sexual humiliation. What other interpretation can be gleaned from it?
                          Washington Irving:

                          "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                          Stratford-on-Avon

                          Comment

                          • #58
                            Originally posted by corey123 View Post
                            Hello Wickerman,

                            The book you cite is not one of scholarly worth, so I find it's verses a bit flawed for research. And no I am not saying it isn't possible that these murders were not sexual but how would they not be? If he wanted organs and only organs, please do explain the cuts to the face? Please do explain the cuts to the vagina? Please do explain why these organs were wanting in the first place? Do explain why in sexual murders organs are usually missing, I am but using logic.

                            Whether a term is used or not is no fair way to refute its existance just because you hadn't known of it. I use the word how it is read, necro means dead, and sadism is sexual humiliation. What other interpretation can be gleaned from it?
                            Hi Corey
                            and sadism is sexual humiliation
                            Correct me if I am wrong, but is not sadism simply defined as enjoying inflicting pain (torture) on others. To indicate deriving sexual pleasure from inflicting pain on others wouldn't you would have to label it sexual sadism?
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"
                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."
                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment

                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post
                              Hi Corey
                              and sadism is sexual humiliation
                              Correct me if I am wrong, but is not sadism simply defined as enjoying inflicting pain (torture) on others.
                              No correction needed, "sadism" is not especially sexual, you have many ways to be sadistic.

                              Comment

                              • #60
                                Quite the reverse.
                                Sadism is basically sexual. When it's not, it's in a figurative sense (moral sadism, for example) and needs an epithet.

                                Comment

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