Ripper Anatomy Class

[protohistorian]

Yeah! A thread dedicated to human biology in the context of Jack the Ripper! My plans initially are to post basic anatomy images found on Al Gore's INTERNET so we can all get a handle on what bits are where. Advanced plans include wound recreations based on what sources we have.

[protohistorian]

The human neck

Images showing structures. A couple of brave women on casebook volunteered their neck measurements and these were averaged to get the size of the neck close to a real size. This is because actual measurements are lacking. It assumes these brave women are not no neck having professional wrestler types, or Olive Oyle like pencil neckers. The search for suitable images was several hours long and let me assure you, you find some disturbed people when you search for head and neck images.

[protohistorian]

kidney, not Michael

Since the location of human kidneys plays a role in our story, here are some pictures to provide some kidney context. The image with the lovely blue human shows relative normal position within the body on a standing figure. The second image is a CT slice of a body showing kidneys in a cross sectional context. Just a warning to anyone claiming these CT images are of their organs, I will require proof and I collect said proof myself (to avoid shenanigans) and with a rusty spoon I keep for said purpose. Dave

[Scorpio]

Hello protohistorian, interesting post. I notice something called the Hyoid bone in this diagram, and i am sure that pathologists state that this particular bone often breaks during manual strangulation. Does anyone know if a broken Hyiod bone is mentioned in the Ripper inquests ?.

[protohistorian]

As of now Scorpio I do not know. I will be making a survey of all the wound data as a try to make illustrations of specific wounds, I will keep an eye out for it. Dave

[protohistorian]

the spine

The main diagram shows a spine out of the context of a living organism. The gaps seen would be filled by invertebrate disk.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intervertebral_disc

One thing to consider when gaging a suspect is that marks on the vertebrae of multiple victims hint as decapitation as a goal. Would a surgeon, or even someone with basic knowledge of anatomy leave these marks? It seems to me they point a frenzied and uncontrolled mind by virtue of the severity of attack needed to leave them as well as a relatively uneducated mind anatomically speaking. If one couple this with the attackers ability to remain consistent in attack methodology, systemic attack becomes an almost laughable proposition. Dave

[lynn cates]

long range plan

Hello Dave. Lovely work!

Do your long range plans include a chart of each of the C5 along with witness placement and times? That would be most instructive.

Cheers.
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Dave,

This is indeed an interesting little thread. Thanks for starting this. Perhaps with the help of diagrams etc, I would be obliged, if anyone can tell me, how a heart is usually removed from a body? You see, there seems to me a small, tiny, insignificant little problem removing Mary Kelly's heart... It is impossible to do it (as far as I am aware) through the chest without breaking the ribs, which isn't mentioned in the Kelly inquest papers. Intercostal muscles between the ribs being ripped will not enable a person to remove the heart. Having talked to a medical aquaintance of mine, he assures me that heart removal is almost certainly done through the chest area.
However, he also said
"of course, that if one was to remove a heart from under the ribcage, then of course it is possible, by removing the liver and other material first. But then one has the problems of light and sight, and the length of the knife being used."

Now that's what I would call working blind...especially without anatomical knowledge. I welcome any diagram to explain these thoughts.

best wishes

Phil

[protohistorian]

I will work on that Phil. I am just now learning the program to manipulate photos. Here is the casebook Cathy neck diagram ( the one averaged from volunteers for size) minus a double line that would indicate skin. The absent line represents 4 inches and starts at the approximate location of the ear on the lower right side. This is a wound described by Dr. Llewellyn. I am working on a way to demonstrate depth. Dave

[protohistorian]

disregard the last image

I uploaded the wrong damn image, please forgiveme. Dave

[protohistorian]

Hello Dave,

This is indeed an interesting little thread. Thanks for starting this. Perhaps with the help of diagrams etc, I would be obliged, if anyone can tell me, how a heart is usually removed from a body? You see, there seems to me a small, tiny, insignificant little problem removing Mary Kelly's heart... It is impossible to do it (as far as I am aware) through the chest without breaking the ribs, which isn't mentioned in the Kelly inquest papers. Intercostal muscles between the ribs being ripped will not enable a person to remove the heart. Having talked to a medical aquaintance of mine, he assures me that heart removal is almost certainly done through the chest area.
However, he also said
"of course, that if one was to remove a heart from under the ribcage, then of course it is possible, by removing the liver and other material first. But then one has the problems of light and sight, and the length of the knife being used."

Now that's what I would call working blind...especially without anatomical knowledge. I welcome any diagram to explain these thoughts.

best wishes

Phil

Hello Phil. I would think it was done from underneath. Watching my brother extract a deer heart one time I noticed he located the heart and gave a tug. This he said allowed him to gage where the connections were that were holding the heart in place and he rather quickly and blindly inserted his knife, cut the offending vessels and tugged. Total elapsed time from incision to heart extraction about 4 minutes on a dead animal. My brother, like myself, is not a particularly bright bulb. Dave

[Phil Carter]

Hello Dave,

Thank you for this. Of course, I presume that the space for the deer disembowellment was unlimited, the light was good and that he (your brother) knew what he was looking for?
I have never done such a thing, so am not knowledgable enough to be able to hazard a guess. Many thanks

best wishes

Phil

[protohistorian]

Hello Phil, light was fading, it was eent (sundown). He had done this before, he hunts frequently. There was no space restriction, although having seen his method I do not think one would make a hell of alot of difference. Dave

[protohistorian]

a case on interpretations

Below are two diagrams. Dr. Llewellyn describes a 4 inch (approx) incision on Mrs. Nichol's neck. The diagram with a black line around the edge represents 4 inches along the circumference of the neck. You can plainly see an incision of this variety would not sever the neck structures on both sides of the neck as Dr. Llewellyn indicates was the case. Image two is the cross section with a transecting line of the image removed. This line is 3 and 5/16s of an inch long. Dave

[protohistorian]

The Uterus

I have a feeling this might be helpful for those handicapped by testicles, awkward social skills, and those who could never manage to get a glimpse of a female action figure without her pants on. It might also be useful to women who do not possess x ray vision. Dave