Ripper Anatomy Class

[Errata]

Hi Investigator (& Errata),

Thanks for your clear reply & your view on Stride, and sorry for not getting back to you any sooner. I have another question that I hope you can answer. Knowing what we know about the crime scenes, how would you explain the lack of evidence of arterial blood spray on any of the crime scenes, except for Kelly’s and perhaps that of Chapman?

All the best,
Frank

Well, I struggle with this one. The conventional wisdom is that they were strangled first. Once the heart stops, arterial spray is no longer a factor.

But then why bother cutting the throat? I can't imagine he was so concerned about arterial spray that he took precautions to prevent it. And strangulation has its own risks. If you are trying to deprive someone of air, they cannot scream, but they can and do put up one helluva fight. If you are cutting off the blood flow to the brain, it's faster, and there is little fight, but most strangulation methods do not cut off enough of the airway to prevent noise. Maybe not a full throated scream, but something about the level of moaning is totally possible. My stunt Ripper/ fiance put his arm around my throat in the typical stranglehold for a few seconds. I could make a fair amount of noise before seeing stars. Frog like sounds, but loud enough. Evidently the one arm choke hold does not particularly compress the trachea. It just shunts it to the side, curving it enough to make breathing difficult. I could wish he found that experience a little less cathartic.

So I don't know. I was toying with the idea of JtR twisting the victim's head towards him. It would compress the cut, and any residual spurt would go on him, which if he is wearing a dark wool jacket is unnoticeable. But that doesn't fit either. If there is no blood on the chest, they either have to have been on their backs or suspended upside down. It is entirely possibly that this guy was far more lucky than good.

[protohistorian]

In the following press report we learn certain things.

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/east_london_advertiser/ela880331.html

1. she is alive
2. she communicates orally

Here is a diagram that shows structures I believe would preclude one or other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_laryngeal_nerve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagus_nerve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrictores_pharyngis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truncus_Sympaticus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_carotid_artery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_nerve

You can add the hypoglossal nerve to the no fly list. Dave

[FrankO]

Hi Frank, Errata is correct in saying there is a lag time (about 2 -3 seconds)before compensation kicks in. The initial spurt is with significant pressure behind it. Even if there had been immediate heart block, the elasticity of the arteries would still have produced a spurt as they reduced pressure.

Hi Investigator (& Errata),

Thanks for your clear reply & your view on Stride, and sorry for not getting back to you any sooner. I have another question that I hope you can answer. Knowing what we know about the crime scenes, how would you explain the lack of evidence of arterial blood spray on any of the crime scenes, except for Kelly’s and perhaps that of Chapman?

All the best,
Frank

[protohistorian]

Ada Wilson

In the following press report we learn certain things.

http://www.casebook.org/press_reports/east_london_advertiser/ela880331.html

1. she is alive
2. she communicates orally

Here is a diagram that shows structures I believe would preclude one or other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superior_laryngeal_nerve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagus_nerve

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constrictores_pharyngis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truncus_Sympaticus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/External_carotid_artery

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facial_nerve

[Errata]

Godspeed man. Well done.

[protohistorian]

last post

The last post is the whitehall mystery, not Pinchin. I am done for a while. Dave

[protohistorian]

pinchin neck wound

Described by Dr. Bond as," The neck had been divided by several jagged incisions at the bottom of the larynx,..." The larynx occupies a space between the C3 and C6 vertebra.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larynx

This is most similar to the M5 neck wounds, and much farther down the neck than the other victims in the Macnaghten sequence.

Dave

[Investigator]

Hi Frank, Errata is correct in saying there is a lag time (about 2 -3 seconds)before compensation kicks in. The initial spurt is with significant pressure behind it. Even if there had been immediate heart block, the elasticity of the arteries would still have produced a spurt as they reduced pressure. Many a time I've had one in the eye just by snipping between artery clamps, no heart pump behind it.
I suspect that Strides scarf may have acted as a temporary ligature to the vessels but alternatively she had been inclined with her neck towards the gutter. I'm not entirely convinced that her death was simply blood loss, even though Phillips indicates a large blood mass. I suspect cardiac arrest before losing sufficient blood volume, most of which lost by drainage. The PM report lacks detail to draw precise conclusions. Regards DG

[Errata]

It is possible that the precipitous collapse of Stride could have been the result of left vagus bisection. The PM doesn’t provide such detail. Note too, that the pulmonary artery did not contain the frothy blood expected if air embolism had occurred – meaning that venous pressure may well have been increased. DG

I have also been reading a lot on the mechanics of manual and ligature strangling, and their seems to be a condition that is unusual but not unheard of. I think I read 1 in 1000 people have arteries that are not resistant to pressure, like hardened arteries, and then you can get bradycardia if you hit the right spot and they just drop dead. So her collapse I suppose could come from gripping her neck, or choking her without the use of the knife.

I think that severing the vagus and the carotid at the same time wouldn't allow enough time for the vagus to send the information to the heart in time to have in affect blood pressure in time to prevent any spurt. I could be wrong, but I think the blood pressure would have to be severely diminished, and I think that takes more time than lowering the blood pressure by bleeding out.

[FrankO]

The figure demonstrates (doesn't insert????) that severance or stimulation of the vagi nerves can (a) slow the whole heart, (b) produce varying degrees of heart block or arrest the ventricles altogether, (c) diminish the force of chamber contraction, (d) shortens the duration of systole. The output of the heart is greatly reduced and blood pressure falls rapidly almost to zero pressure. Blood accumulates on the venous side of the circulation – the right atria and great veins causing an increase in venous pressure.

Hi Investigator,

Even though I didn’t understand all the details, thanks for sharing your knowledge about the vagus nerves. As I’m unable to distil this from your post, perhaps you could answer the following: would the severance of the left vagus (together with the left carotid artery) prevent any major spurting of blood?

Because if so, that would explain why no evidence of major spurting of blood was found in the cases of Nichols, Chapman, Stride and Eddowes.

Thanks and I look forward to your reply.
Frank

[protohistorian]

Thanks Investigator. That was a big help for me! Dave

[Investigator]

Vagus bisection

Hello all,
noticed a query on vagus bisection, due to time constraints I’m not always able to respond to individual discussion so sorry if this is a late in your debate.
The physiologist, Gaskell in 1883 determined that the rhythmic contractibility of the heart was a property of the cardiac muscle and the nervous system had a secondary function to control rate regularity. It’s quite amazing what these early physiologists were able to do – no wonder Frankenstein was a big hit.
The vagi exercises a limiting restraint on the rate at which the heart contracts. The right vagus mainly supplies the S.A node and the left vagus, the A.V. node. Both these nodes relay fibres to the atria, the bundle of His and the ventricles. Impairment in the conductivity between these structures can produce a severe effect on heart function. Stimulating the left or right vagi show different responses;

“…excessive stimulation of the left vagus caused blocking of the conduction of impulses to the atrioventricular node resulting in a sudden fall in B.P. and syncope. Stimulation of the right vagus caused a fall in B.P. by blocking the transmission of impulses to the sinoauricular node that slowed the heart rate but did not produce syncope.” (Wright, 1956)

In practice in making a vagotomy, I found that there was less risk by severing the right vagus before the left because the heart was not unduly affected and continued to function. The left bisection in an animal on a respirator can sometimes not recover heart beat - maybe I overstimulated it while tring to find it in such a small animal as a rat.

Sequential events (1) Vagal stimulation by bisection (2) left vagus block with rapid fall in blood pressure (3) vagal escape in 5 - 10 seconds, heart takes over pace making (4) inefficient right ventricular contraction (5) reduced oxygenation of blood (6) inadequate blood flow in coronaries (7) anoxic heart
With ventricular standstill and collapse in blood pressure, the blood supply to the brain and the coronary vessels of the heart ceases. Within a few seconds, consciousness would be lost and compensatory mechanisms arise to increase blood flow (tachycardia). As the heart muscle escapes from vagal control, the ventricles may begin to beat again at their own independent rate but with a diminished performance.

The figure demonstrates (doesn't insert????) that severance or stimulation of the vagi nerves can (a) slow the whole heart, (b) produce varying degrees of heart block or arrest the ventricles altogether, (c) diminish the force of chamber contraction, (d) shortens the duration of systole. The output of the heart is greatly reduced and blood pressure falls rapidly almost to zero pressure. Blood accumulates on the venous side of the circulation – the right atria and great veins causing an increase in venous pressure.

It is possible that the precipitous collapse of Stride could have been the result of left vagus bisection. The PM doesn’t provide such detail. Note too, that the pulmonary artery did not contain the frothy blood expected if air embolism had occurred – meaning that venous pressure may well have been increased. DG

[protohistorian]

cross sectional comparison M1,2,3

M1 described by Dr. Llewellyn
wound 1 "On the left side of the neck, about an inch below the jaw, there was an incision about four inches long and running from a point immediately below the ear."
wound 2 "An inch below on the same side, and commencing about an inch in front of it, was a circular incision terminating at a point about three inches below the right jaw. This incision completely severs all the tissues down to the vertebrae. The large vessels of the neck on both sides were severed. The incision is about eight inches long."

M2 described by Dr. Phillips, "The throat had been severed. The incisions of the skin indicated that they had been made from the left side of the neck on a line with the angle of the jaw, carried entirely round and again in front of the neck, and ending at a point about midway between the jaw and the sternum or breast bone on the right hand."

M3 described By Dr. Blackwell," The incision in the neck commenced on the left side, 2 inches below the angle of the jaw, and almost in a direct line with it, nearly severing the vessels on that side, cutting the windpipe completely in two, and terminating on the opposite side 1 inch below the angle of the right jaw, but without severing the vessels on that side."

[protohistorian]

M4 and 5 cross sectional wound comparison

M4 neck wound was generated compositing the images on the victims page.

M5 described by Dr. Bond, " The neck was cut through the skin and other tissues right down to the vertebrae, the fifth and sixth being deeply notched. The skin cuts in the front of the neck showed distinct ecchymosis. The air passage was cut at the lower part of the larynx through the cricoid cartilage." I have taken this as complete severance of all tissue outside the perimeter on vertebral prominences. Dave

[protohistorian]

I feel less stoopid already. Dave