methodology of throat cutting

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Fish. I thank you!

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

blunt knife and maps of Whitechapel

Hello Fish,
so, long but blunt, the knife. Thank you so much for the info. (Not possible for me right now to read the Stride murder inquest, as I'm stuck with preparing for my research here in Paris.) And I hope that no one here is considering the possibility that the knife got dull by having been used on Stride's throat! A knife gets blunt by being used against hard objects. And getting blunt by oxidation by having been left in the rain JUST one night after having been used on Stride's throat doesn't “cut“ it.
By the by, could someone direct me to a comprehensive historical map of Whitechapel (preferably from 1888), which would include the names of ALL the streets? The 1888 map of Whitechapel posted here on casebook doesn't feature the names of all the streets, and Rob Clack's excellent, detailed murder site maps on the JTR Forum don't feature the entire Whitechapel.
Thank you so much.

[Fisherman]

Maria writes:

"getting blunt by oxidation by having been left in the rain JUST one night after having been used on Stride's throat doesn't “cut“ it."

Of course not! And that was not what I meant either. I tried to point out that Phillips assumption that the knife had been "recently blunted" could have owed to the fact that there was an area at the edge of the knife that was NOT oxidized, purportedly owing to it having been ground down against a hard surface, taking AWAY the oxidation on the parts of the blade that were thus blunted. Oxidation in itself would not blunt the blade in the least, just as you say.

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

Obviously I wasn't referring to yourself not knowing about knifes and oxidation, Fisherman!
By the by, do you know of a good, comprehensive map of 1888 Whitechapel online?
(I'm trying to decide about escaping for a weekend of surfing in Bretagne with some guys, leaving tomorrow evening, which would make it impossible for me to consult some letters by Scribe before sept. 19, due to the imminent “fermeture annuelle“ of the départment des manuscripts of the Paris B.N. on monday. Hard decision...)

[Fisherman]

Just type in "map of Whitechapel" in the search field of Casebook, and you will be presented with some useful choices, Maria!

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

Fish, the 3 maps of Whitechapel posted on casebook (the earliest map being from 1888) unfortunately don't feature the names of ALL the smaller streets! I need a COMPREHENSIVE historical map of Whitechapel, for when I'll go to London for the Ripperology conference in the weekend of sept. 25. I'd like to try some routes in Whitechapel, and I only have a current map of London. But I bet that one can buy an historical map of Whitechapel in Whitechapel today, plus, Rob Clack is going to be there anyway, and he knows all the routes. But I'd really like to have my own historical map. (Maybe I'll ask Rob Clack himself, if he can direct me to one...)

[Fisherman]

Maria writes:

"I need a COMPREHENSIVE historical map of Whitechapel"

Okay, Maria! Well, if you do not want to go down on Goad map level, then this may perhaps do the trick:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Jack-Ripper-Whitechapel-1888-Booklet/dp/0954660307

I have not used it myself, though, so you shall have to settle for the rewiews on the website for judging it. Or, of course, you could get Casebook´s own rewiew, here:

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/ripperart.html

Perhaps you can find it in a well sorted bookstore in Whitechapel, since it seems out of order on Amazon.

The best,
Fisherman

[mariab]

Thank you SO very much, Fisherman ! It sounds exactly like what I'm looking for, so it's a real pity it's no more on supply at amazon.uk, plus I couldn't find it either at amazon.fr, amazon.de, or ABE Books. I'll try ebay, and ask Rob Clack if he knows of any specialized bookstores in Whitechapel which might still carry it. Can't hurt to also ask at the British bookstore Brentano's, just 2 blocks from my apartment and from the Paris Opéra Garnier (where I'm doing research later today) – if I manage to get up.
Now off for perhaps 90'min. of shuteye...

[joelhall]

These are where I buy my maps for my family history stuff:

http://digitalarchives.co.uk - good for some large scale and 60 inch maps on CD.

http://www.cassinimaps.co.uk/ - Great for printed maps, although not cheap.

Joel

[lynn cates]

yet again

Hello All. Another story about a throat cutting. Throat cuttings rare in London? Don't think so.

(Lloyd's July 22, 1888.)

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

To Joelhall:
Thank you so much for the information. The second link, for printed maps, features a box with 3 London maps from 1805-1922, but at £39.95, I don't think so! What I'd really like to have is the JtR Whitechapel Map 1888 and its accompanying JtR Whitechapel 1888 Booklet! I've emailed Geoff at RipperArt, and I'm hoping that it's not already out of supply there too, as in everywhere else. Has anyone had success in ordering from RipperArt? I have to add that this link was posted on casebook in 2005...

Joelhall wrote:
If mickey's a mouse, and pluto's a dog, whats goofy?
“Goofy“ is the opposite of “regular“ in boardsports, he he he!!

[caz]

Hello All. Another story about a throat cutting. Throat cuttings rare in London? Don't think so.

(Lloyd's July 22, 1888.)

Hi Lynn,

Wow, now this was a throat cutting and a half. He must have had bleedin' long arms to cut the throat of his wife in London from where he was in Wakes Colne, near Colchester.

I lived near Colchester in the mid-70s and it took the train forever to get me to Liverpool St for work every morning.

Love,

Caz
X

[lynn cates]

conflation

Hello Caz. I wasn't clear on your previous claim. Were you saying that throat cuttings were rare in London, England, both, neither? Obviously, I am conflating here. If you prefer London only, I can do that too.

Cheers.
LC

[Supe]

This thread's title mentions methodology not frequency and that mistaken focus seems to have led folks astray. After all, just as one can say England abounded in throat cuttings in 1888 one can also opine that a slew of goals were scored in the EPL last week but that tells us nothing about the goals themselves. And lacking post mortem reports, as opposed to lurid newspaper reports, it is rather difficult assess the wounds themselves.

As it is, the wounds to the Canonic 5 victims have much greater similarity than those to others for whom we have some information--Tabram, McKenzie and Coles. Indeed, for those who believe in "evolution" by a murderer, an argument could be made that Tabram and McKenzie were killed by the same person.

In any case, sheer numbers are of much less importance than this thread's appeal to "methodology." Armed with a knife, most people will slash or stab rather than quickly move in and slit a throat with one or two deep cuts. Until we know more about these supposed other throat cuttings any speculation about their relevance to JtR is ill-founded.

Don.

[lynn cates]

exceptions/rules

Hello Don. That's right, but it does, I hope, lay to rest the notion that throat cuttings were a rare exception.

Cheers.
LC