cutting throats

[CountessHappyBunny]

Hi all -

This is actually a question about how the forensics work.

There is so much discussion of Jack's left-or-right-handed-ness. The general assumption at the moment seems to be that he strangled them, laid them on the ground and then cut their throats. Since the cuts on the victims run L-R, people believe (him) to have been left-handed.

My question is: how do they know he didn't cut their throats from behind? It seems the most convenient, since he could easily have a prostitute face away from him without arousing her suspicions, and it would allow for the arterial spray without soaking him in blood. If he cut them from behind, wouldn't that imply he was right-handed, if the cuts run L-R?

Do they know he was in front of them because of the angle of the cuts? How is that conclusion drawn?

Thanks in advance for any help!

[corey123]

Hello CHB,

If your interested in this you might want to read up on the specific details relating to the artierial spray.

It can tell alot about how they died.

[Supe]

Countess,

Actually, most people believe Jack was right-handed. Dr. Rees Llewellyn, who examined Polly Nichol, started the notion that Jack was a southpaw but few others--then or now--have accepted it.

The reason for this is that among the Canonic Five, all but Kelly had their throats cut left to right. The consensus is that the victims were on their backs, Jack kneeling by their right side. In that situation, cuts going from left to right are natural for someone righthanded. Try it with a loaf of bread and you will see the wisdom behind that thinking.

Don.

[lynn cates]

forensics

Hello Countess. I'm delighted that you are interested in the forensic reconstruction of the WCM.

The strangulation/cutting left to right whilst on the ground scenario seems very likely with C1, C2 & C4. Not so likely with C3 & C5. Also, C1 & C2 were described as "skillfully mutilated" whilst C4 was described otherwise. C1 & C2 both had 2 cuts, not so C4.

Lesson to be learned? Well, when I came to the boards, the first one I learned from veteran posters was to "look at the forensic evidence." great advice. Each of the 5 killings is unique and should be investigated without any previous assumptions.

Cheers.
LC

[Adam Went]

I'm not sure if "Southpaw" means the same as ambidexterous, but there has been talk in the past that Jack may have been that.

I am ambidexterous, so can perhaps comment on it. Even those who are ambidexterous find it harder to do certain things with one hand - it's not as if we have free use of both hands, exactly the same as the other. For instance, I write right-handed, but cannot use my left. I eat left-handed, and cannot use my right. And so on. So even if Jack was ambidexterous, it's highly likely that he still would have only been able to use one of his hands properly in using the knife on his victims.

Bearing that in mind, despite a few opinions to the contrary, it seems he was most likely right-handed.

Cheers,
Adam.

[bolo]

Hi Bunny, all,

since a forehand slash with the knife held in the right hand results in just the left-to-right cuts (sometimes with a slight downward angle) we see on the victims, there's no reason for me to believe the Ripper couldn't have been right handed.

About the attack-from-behind scenario, that's something I've pondered on for a while. For me, it boils down to this question: Is it possible to cut the throat of a victim down to the vertebrae when standing behind her? From the little we can see in the postmortem photographs, the cuts look like fierce and very deep slashes to me which must be difficult to achieve from behind.

What's more, some victims received several throat slashes in opposite directions, (Polly, etc.), that's almost impossible to do when standing behind them.

Regards,

Boris

[Fisherman]

Bolo writes:

"Is it possible to cut the throat of a victim down to the vertebrae when standing behind her? From the little we can see in the postmortem photographs, the cuts look like fierce and very deep slashes to me which must be difficult to achieve from behind."

...except, of course, the cut that was inflicted on Stride.

The best,
Fisherman

[bolo]

Hello Fisherman,

yes, Stride is one of the victims where the attack-from-behind scenario would make sense due to the nature of the throat wound which is not as deep as on other victims. If I remember correctly, the left vessels and windpipe were nearly severed but the right vessels were still intact. Looks exactly like a wound one would expect from an attack from behind by a right-handed person.

The throat cuts of the other victims are too deep for that.

Regards,

Boris

[Observer]

Hello Fisherman,

yes, Stride is one of the victims where the attack-from-behind scenario would make sense due to the nature of the throat wound which is not as deep as on other victims. If I remember correctly, the left vessels and windpipe were nearly severed but the right vessels were still intact. Looks exactly like a wound one would expect from an attack from behind by a right-handed person.

The throat cuts of the other victims are too deep for that.

Regards,

Boris

Hi Boris

Would not an attack from behind while Stride was in a standing position result in the walls, and paving of Dutfield Yard being splattered with blood? Bear in mind that no such blood spatter was found at the scene.

all the best

Observer

[Fisherman]

Observer:

"Would not an attack from behind while Stride was in a standing position result in the walls, and paving of Dutfield Yard being splattered with blood?"

Yes, Observer, that it would, which is why I propose that she was cut during her fall, with the opening of the left side vessel facing the ground. Such a cut would probably be deepest at the left side, then it would grow more superficial as she fell, and it would probably taper away somewhat upwards as the knife drew nearer her right side.
And what do we have in Strides case ...? Exactly.

The best,
Fisherman

[Observer]

Hi Fisher

Even if Stride was cut as she was falling I would still expect to see spatter extending beyond the boundries of her prone figure, the blood spattering as it hit the ground of the yard. As you know the only blood that was detected was a trail of blood extending from her neck to the gutter. Surely her throat was cut as she lay prone on the ground?

all the best

Observer

[Fisherman]

There is no "surely" here, Observer - as you know, Blackwell himself suggested a cut during her fall.
Think of it this way: open a bottle of lemonade half a metre over the ground, with the neck pointing down. Then drop the bottle, smashing it on the ground. Then tell me which part of the lemonade struck the ground first.

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Iīll add this for good measure, Observer. Itīs from the inquest, and itīs Blackwell speaking:

"There was about 1lb of clotted blood close by the body, and a stream all the way from there to the back door of the club."

Coroner: Were there no spots of blood about?

"No; only some marks of blood which had been trodden in."

So, there was not only an even stream of blood at the site; there was some sort of pool or gathering of blood close to Stride. And there were "marks of blood" that had been trodden in.

The best,
Fisherman

[Observer]

Hi Fish

Irrespective of which liquid is used, if it is spilt, or in the case of Stride her blood is propelled towards the ground, once it hits the ground it spatters. The added force of the blood pumping from Strides throat would make it spatter even more, over a wider area. If she was cut while in the process of falling, and the stream of blood was directed towards the ground I would expect to see spatters of blood extending beyond her prone body. None such were found

all the best

Observer

[Observer]

Hi Fish

Wasn't the clot of blood the final issue of blood from Strides neck which pooled due to the slowing down of the flow, Strides heart no longer pumping ? And Blackwell's explaination of trodden blood is the result of someone treading in the flow of blood which had wound it's way to the gutter, repositioning it somewhere else.

all the best

Observer