Escalation: What would Jack do after Mary Kelly?

[Steven_Rex]

Great thread! I agree with Pontius - the killer could not, in my opinion, have retired to a completely 'normal' life. With regard to him taking a 'break' as well, I'd like to raise the fact that the canonical murders all took place within a few short months. This, to me, shows a high impulse and points towards a very industrious and committed serial killer. I might buy the idea that he could take a prolonged break and/or retire entirely had he not been so productive in the period in which he was active, but the rapidity of his crimes suggest to me that once he had begun, his desire to continue was almost insatiable - even with police keeping their eyes on Whitechapel, he still continued killing. This just doesn't comport with a killer who could casually take breaks from his work.

[Pontius2000]

Is it reasonable to assume that there is a definite escalation of violence and ferocity with each of the canonical victims, excluding Liz Stride (but interruption could have been the reason for this being an anomoly)?

If so, what do we think Jack could possibly have done after killing Mary Kelly? I can't see how he could possibly have done anything worse than that, and can't think of any murders since that could be comparable in atrociousness (though I don't doubt there could have been).

I agree with Protohistorian. The logical next step after Mary Kelly would have been Elizabeth Jackson.....murder, mutilation, dismemberment, thrown in the river, head and other body parts possibly/probably kept as souvenirs.

I don't know a lot about Jackson as far as proximity to the other murders sites, etc. but what I've read, the mutilations themselves do not sound all that different than the ones done to Kelly.

I am not saying here that I think Jackson WAS a JTR victim, but I DO think that would be the most logical next step. and I'm not convinced she was a botched abortion.

and personally, I don't believe there's any way that JTR went on living a normal life in freedom. I've seen mentioned 2 serial killers that I recognize...Ted Bundy and the BTK killer. Ted Bundy did NOT stop killing as was suggested. he appeared normal IN BETWEEN the killings, but was he not killing right up to the very end of his freedom? I believe he was. then, the BTK killer was dormant, supposedly, for many years. but then, he started corresponding with police. does that sound like a serial killer who has resigned to live a normal life?

[ianincleveland]

Many serial killers produce a pattern which is called - The Mcdonald Triad. This refers to their history. as children they tended to set fires, torture animals and bed-wet beyond the age of eleven.

I think the fire thing allows them to vent their desire for destruction. The animal torture is lkely to be about inflicting pain, control and domination. I imagine the bed wetting is a response to the child abuse they have usually suffered.

Serial killers do not always have this history, but many do. Some may have two or less. Most I think, are likely to have all three.

Many indeed have at least two if not all three,but Peter sutcliffe the Yorkshire Ripper as far as im aware had none of these at all.he also managed to go many months without killing.however he did have a conviction for going equipped to steal when found in posession of a hammer.Im certain as are the police that the hammer was to be used for an awfully lot worse crime.

He laid low for a few years then went on his rampage.Im sure JTR had somewhere back in his past other convictions

[protohistorian]

Elizabeth Jackson? Dave

[D.B.Wagstaff]

A Personal Perspective

I've been reading this thread with some interest, and thought I would toss a personal perspective into the discussion, though it doesn't fit the case of Jack specifically.

I was interviewed and was a witness in the trial of a close family friend who brutally murdered his wife and was privy to some information from the investigators of the crime. I won't reveal the name of the murderer, out of respect for his family, but will give the circumstances.

The killer was male, late 30s, and universally known to all that knew him as a very sweet-tempered non-violent man. He had been the victim of a kidnapping/robbery and, unbeknownst to anyone except his family, had suffered amnesia due to a blow to the head. He was found wandering aimlessly after the crime, but seemed recover fully over time.

However, again, known only to his family, he continued to have episodes were he would "black-out" and be discovered days later doing things totally out of character for him: joining the merchant marines under an assumed name and losing his entire paycheck in Las Vegas, for example.

One night he killed his wife, brutally strangling her with her nylons and bashing her head in with a fireplace poker. He fled the scene and was captured just as he was leaving on a ship as a laborer under an assumed name.

Psychiatric evaluation revealed he was schzophrenic - one personality was the sweet respectable person everyone knew, the other a very dark, manipulative, and sadistic alter-ego. His "dark" personality felt his "regular" personality was weak and stupid and he had to take over to keep others from "walking all over him". Under hypnosis the pscyhiatrists could call the "dark side" out and the change was unbelievable - I viewed the videotape of one of the sessions -you could hardly recognize the man as being the same person. Each personality was completely compartmentalized from the other and although the "dark personality knew what was going on with the "normal" one, the "normal" had no memory of the actions of the "dark side".

Investigators and psychiatrists firmly believe had this man not been caught committing this first murder (if, indeed it was his first, as they believe) he would have killed again. They also believe nobody he was in contact with would have suspected the danger that lurked beneath his "normal" exterior.

Investigators and prosecutors who are very dubious about claims of "insanity" were thoroughly convinced in this case, and the murderer was institutionalized for extensive treatment (years) and has been released - very closely monitored and still under extensive treatment -without further incident.

The "experts" believe the schzophrenia and subsequent murderous impulse were brought on by the blow to the head when the subject was kidnapped, and there were no other violent crimes committed, but one has to wonder . . .

If this incident had not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, I never - ever - would have believe this person was capable of such brutality. Would he have killed again? Had he killed before? I don't know, but trust me - he would have been able to fade into the woodwork unsuspected had he not been caught.

[Ashkenaz]

violent killers had invariably started by horribly killing animals before graduating to humans. I think that it is very likely that Jack had already done a 'Kelly type crime' on animals before killing Polly.

Many serial killers produce a pattern which is called - The Mcdonald Triad. This refers to their history. as children they tended to set fires, torture animals and bed-wet beyond the age of eleven.

I think the fire thing allows them to vent their desire for destruction. The animal torture is lkely to be about inflicting pain, control and domination. I imagine the bed wetting is a response to the child abuse they have usually suffered.

Serial killers do not always have this history, but many do. Some may have two or less. Most I think, are likely to have all three.

[Jonathan H]

It's a fair question, but I would argue that it is looking at it from the wrong way round.

We can never get closer than what senior police believed.

We can never get closer than the best arguments between Kosminski, Tumblety and Druitt [others would also add Chapman, though I would not].

If you believe -- and nobody does but me -- that Macnaghten made a careful and detailed investigation of Druitt, though discreet and unofficial, then he faced this question too.

Druitt had been the murderer, he decided, and so Druitt could blend back into society without arousing the slightest suspicion amongst respectable people: '... such madness takes protean forms ...'

The counter-argument is that in every version Macnaghten gives us -- except notably his 1913 comments -- he claims the exact opposite regarding the killer's movements immediately after the Kelly murder; the final atrocity.

That Druitt's alleged 'awful glut' in Miller's Ct. left him unable to function, unable to live, his mind imploded over his own horror, though he did manage -- through some herculean effort -- to stumble, and stagger his way to the Thames and throw his annihilated husk into the watery depths -- at Chiswick no less!

[Johnr]

Could Montague Druitt Play Cricket After Killing M.J.Kelly?

Alright,

I am one of the non-cognicenti who would not realise a killer could suddenly switch off after say, the wholesale slaughter of a victim like Mary Jane Kelly.

Sure, I understand it is unwise to try to understand the workings of the mind of such a person.

So, the London Metropolitan Police at Scotland Yard should not have been studying the Death Registers -mistakenly believing their quarry could only cease by killing himself- or the Asylum Intake Registers...

But rather they should have been studying the Marriage Registers?

Surely, the point is ninety-nine point nine percent of killers would not have been able to "blend back into society as a normal person" afterwards.

I still think the serial killer cases quoted above, (ones who stopped killing and functioned "normally").....are extremely rare exceptions.

How would they cope when there was a Road Rage incident?

JOHN RUFFELS.

[HollyDolly]

What you just said makes sense.In the book,Open Files by Jay Robert Nash, under the Zodiac Killer he makes mention of the fact that you have serial killers who for whatever reason stop killing,and says much of what you have stated.I guess we really will never know.

[Observer]

Exception or rule? I don't know, and neither do you, each serial killer is unique. Ridgeway decided to stop killing. If you are going to speculate however lets have some backup. If you are of the opinion that JTR left the Country, and that serial killers must have their kicks, have you any suggestions as to which country he relocated to? Are there any incidents of murder and mutilation reported in the world's press which would suggest that JTR had left Britain?

Observer

[Fleetwood Mac]

Mr Twibbs makes a good point, serial killers do adapt to their life's changing circumstances. Gary Ridgeway the Green River killer stopped murdering for 25 years, the fact that he got married could well have been a factor in his decision to halt his murdering ways.

Observer

Exceptions to the rule......

So you do you go with exception or rule?

[Hunter]

Good point and that proves that some serial killers do stop for whatever reason.

Be careful trying to rationalize the irrational.

[Observer]

I don't think it's an option to suggest he would have stopped killing.....my understanding is that serial killers need their fix and don't stop.

I'd go for he moved abroad.

Any suggestions regarding which country had the misfortune to house and subsequently suffer his continuing murderous activities?

Mr Twibbs makes a good point, serial killers do adapt to their life's changing circumstances. Gary Ridgeway the Green River killer stopped murdering for 25 years, the fact that he got married could well have been a factor in his decision to halt his murdering ways.

Observer

[MrTwibbs]

I'd imagine that serial killers.....and some of the stuff they do is absolutely unfathomable to the more reasonable among us....do not have a mental breakdown and do not kill themselves. I would discount these.

Leaving the following options.....

He was incarcerated for a different crime......

He moved abroad.....

He died.....

He was caught but for whatever reason it wasn't made public.....

The killings were politically motivated and the objective had been achieved.

I don't think it's an option to suggest he would have stopped killing.....my understanding is that serial killers need their fix and don't stop.

In my view.....he wasn't a career criminal.....nor involved in any political group.....butchering women was his thing.....and it would have been very difficult to keep his capture out of the public domain.

I'd go for he moved abroad.

Serial killers adapt to their personal circumstances and its possible due to old age, ill health he or she may have been forced to curb their "excesses"
Alternatively it is also possible if this person was suffering from some sort of brain disease, i.e.syphilis that his/her MO changed. A bit like how hand writing changes over time or if a person has suffered some illness.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Is it reasonable to assume that there is a definite escalation of violence and ferocity with each of the canonical victims, excluding Liz Stride (but interruption could have been the reason for this being an anomoly)?

If so, what do we think Jack could possibly have done after killing Mary Kelly? I can't see how he could possibly have done anything worse than that, and can't think of any murders since that could be comparable in atrociousness (though I don't doubt there could have been).

I can't see how any human mind could possibly remain intact after witnessing let alone carrying out such an atrocity, leaving me to believe the perpetrator must have either had a complete mental breakdown, or took his own life.

Anyone agree/disagree? Is it possible for someone to fade back into 'normal' life after committing such a crime? Any knowledge shared would be most appreciated.

I'd imagine that serial killers.....and some of the stuff they do is absolutely unfathomable to the more reasonable among us....do not have a mental breakdown and do not kill themselves. I would discount these.

Leaving the following options.....

He was incarcerated for a different crime......

He moved abroad.....

He died.....

He was caught but for whatever reason it wasn't made public.....

The killings were politically motivated and the objective had been achieved.

I don't think it's an option to suggest he would have stopped killing.....my understanding is that serial killers need their fix and don't stop.

In my view.....he wasn't a career criminal.....nor involved in any political group.....butchering women was his thing.....and it would have been very difficult to keep his capture out of the public domain.

I'd go for he moved abroad.