Escalation: What would Jack do after Mary Kelly?

[GBinOz]

There are only a few suspects who murdered anyone though. Also people keep mentioning Unknown Suspect as if a magic suspect who ticks all the boxes is going to appear. This I'm afraid isn't going to happen. And even if they did few would believe they were the Ripper anyway.

Hi John,

There are only a few suspects who murdered anyone that we know about. While we have a list of named suspects, the smart money is on someone who blends into the crowd - unnamed, unknown and chuckling at our efforts.

Cheers, George

[John Wheat]

When Berry wrote his memoirs some years later there was not even a mention of Bury.

This is also from Wikipedia:

"A few days before the execution, Bury confessed to Reverend Gough that he had killed Ellen. At the urging of Gough, William wrote a confession on 22 April 1889, which he asked to be withheld until after he was dead. William claimed that he had strangled Ellen without premeditation on the night of 4 February 1889 during a drunken row over money, and that he had tried to dismember the body for disposal the next day but was too squeamish to continue. The latter part of this confession does not match the expert testimony of the physicians, who said that the incisions were made "within at most ten minutes of the time of death" rather than the next day. William stated he had stuffed Ellen's body into the crate as part of a later plan for disposal, but instead concocted the suicide story when he realised that Ellen's absence would be noted.".

Could a "squeamish" person perpetrate the injuries visited upon Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly?

There is no evidence that Bury murdered anyone but his wife.

There are only a few suspects who murdered anyone though. Also people keep mentioning Unknown Suspect as if a magic suspect who ticks all the boxes is going to appear. This I'm afraid isn't going to happen. And even if they did few would believe they were the Ripper anyway.

[GBinOz]

I've read about this in Wiki article which seems quite detailed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Bury
There you can find:

...
The Courier alleged that Bury admitted to Lieutenant Parr that he was Jack the Ripper,[80] but Parr's version of the story says only that Bury said he was afraid he would be arrested as Jack the Ripper.[81] Bury denied any connection, despite making a full confession to his wife's murder. Nevertheless, the executioner James Berry promoted the idea that Bury was the Ripper.[68]

When Berry wrote his memoirs some years later there was not even a mention of Bury.

This is also from Wikipedia:

"A few days before the execution, Bury confessed to Reverend Gough that he had killed Ellen. At the urging of Gough, William wrote a confession on 22 April 1889, which he asked to be withheld until after he was dead. William claimed that he had strangled Ellen without premeditation on the night of 4 February 1889 during a drunken row over money, and that he had tried to dismember the body for disposal the next day but was too squeamish to continue. The latter part of this confession does not match the expert testimony of the physicians, who said that the incisions were made "within at most ten minutes of the time of death" rather than the next day. William stated he had stuffed Ellen's body into the crate as part of a later plan for disposal, but instead concocted the suicide story when he realised that Ellen's absence would be noted.".

Could a "squeamish" person perpetrate the injuries visited upon Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly?

There is no evidence that Bury murdered anyone but his wife.

[John Wheat]

I've read about this in Wiki article which seems quite detailed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Bury
There you can find:

...
The Courier alleged that Bury admitted to Lieutenant Parr that he was Jack the Ripper,[80] but Parr's version of the story says only that Bury said he was afraid he would be arrested as Jack the Ripper.[81] Bury denied any connection, despite making a full confession to his wife's murder. Nevertheless, the executioner James Berry promoted the idea that Bury was the Ripper.[68]

Other sources more reliable than Wikipedia don't mention Bury denying the Ripper murders.

[Abby Normal]

We have to keep in mind that with Stride we have witness who've seen the attack: Israel Schwartz. He's often called the best witness in the case. Possibly one who was involved in identification (we don't know for sure). Even if he wasn't able to identify the killer I think that we can almost be sure that he really was a witness to the Ripper attack.

hi
i agree. also, most of the witnesses that night describe a suspect wearing a peaked cap. as did schwartz.

[Lewis C]

I guess the question is; what makes the Ripper the Ripper?

Post Mortem mutilation?
Strangulation?
Cutting throat?
Use of knife as weapon?

Deeming did 3 of those
Bury also did 3 of those

Deeming murdered 2 wives and his children

Bury murdered his wife

A person needs to gave murdered at least 3 people and to have committed murder on more than one occasion to be labelled a "Serial killer."

Bury doesn't make the cut when it comes to that...unless he was the Ripper of course.

If he wasn't the Ripper, then he was a domestic killer of his wife and nothing more.

The same goes for James Kelly, who even though he murdered his wife with a knife in a particularly grotesque manner, he didn't make the cut as a Serial Killer.

Only Deeming and Chapman were known Serial Killers.


The fact is that if Bury hadn't cut his wife post mortem, he would never have been considered in the first place.

Bury either did that because he was a Ripper fantasist and/or chose to try and mimic the Ripper by opting to cut Ellen post mortem OR he was the Ripper trying to leave us a clue as to his true identity.

I'd say that Bury mutilating his wife is more significant than that he didn't cut her throat. Also, Bury was definitely in the London area at the time of the C5 murders, while Deeming may or may not have been. So overall, I'd consider Bury a stronger suspect than Deeming, though Deeming is stronger than most.

[Lewis C]

We have to keep in mind that with Stride we have witness who've seen the attack: Israel Schwartz. He's often called the best witness in the case. Possibly one who was involved in identification (we don't know for sure). Even if he wasn't able to identify the killer I think that we can almost be sure that he really was a witness to the Ripper attack.

I think we can be almost sure that to the best of his ability, Schwartz was telling the truth. However, I think that BS man may or may not have been Stride's killer. And while I think that Stride was probably a Ripper murder, I wouldn't say that we can be almost sure that she was.

[I1ariusz]

I would say almost caught red handed with Chapman, and maybe with Stride. He may have already been gone by the time Diemschutz arrived. I think you could say maybe with Eddowes also. He may have still been in Mitre square when the first PC partially entered the square.

We have to keep in mind that with Stride we have witness who've seen the attack: Israel Schwartz. He's often called the best witness in the case. Possibly one who was involved in identification (we don't know for sure). Even if he wasn't able to identify the killer I think that we can almost be sure that he really was a witness to the Ripper attack.

[I1ariusz]

Bury never denied his involvement in the Ripper murders. He lived in Bow which neighbours Whitechapel. However at the time owned a horse and cart so could quite easily travel into Whitechapel.

Cheers John

I've read about this in Wiki article which seems quite detailed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Henry_Bury
There you can find:

...
The Courier alleged that Bury admitted to Lieutenant Parr that he was Jack the Ripper,[80] but Parr's version of the story says only that Bury said he was afraid he would be arrested as Jack the Ripper.[81] Bury denied any connection, despite making a full confession to his wife's murder. Nevertheless, the executioner James Berry promoted the idea that Bury was the Ripper.[68]

[John Wheat]

Not beyond reasonable doubt, and the last trial demonstrated just that.



The Baron

Of course its beyond reasonable doubt.

[GBinOz]

Not beyond reasonable doubt, and the last trial demonstrated just that.



The Baron

No! He made a written confession to murdering his wife with the caveat that he had no previous intent.

[The Baron]

lol. bury was arrested, tried, convicted and hung for murdering his wife. he also confessed. hes a proven and admitted murderer.

Not beyond reasonable doubt, and the last trial demonstrated just that.



The Baron

[Abby Normal]

Bury might have killed his wife because he confessed to this, but the evidence in this case is not conclusive, and probably he thought that he killed her because he was too drunk at the time and when he woke up she was dead.

Bury is not a proven murderer, the last I've heard he got the not guilty verdict.


The Baron

lol. bury was arrested, tried, convicted and hung for murdering his wife. he also confessed. hes a proven and admitted murderer.

[The Baron]

Bury might have killed his wife because he confessed to this, but the evidence in this case is not conclusive, and probably he thought that he killed her because he was too drunk at the time and when he woke up she was dead.

Bury is not a proven murderer, the last I've heard he got the not guilty verdict.


The Baron

[John Wheat]

I guess the question is; what makes the Ripper the Ripper?

Post Mortem mutilation?
Strangulation?
Cutting throat?
Use of knife as weapon?

Deeming did 3 of those
Bury also did 3 of those

Deeming murdered 2 wives and his children

Bury murdered his wife

A person needs to gave murdered at least 3 people and to have committed murder on more than one occasion to be labelled a "Serial killer."

Bury doesn't make the cut when it comes to that...unless he was the Ripper of course.

If he wasn't the Ripper, then he was a domestic killer of his wife and nothing more.

The same goes for James Kelly, who even though he murdered his wife with a knife in a particularly grotesque manner, he didn't make the cut as a Serial Killer.

Only Deeming and Chapman were known Serial Killers.


The fact is that if Bury hadn't cut his wife post mortem, he would never have been considered in the first place.

Bury either did that because he was a Ripper fantasist and/or chose to try and mimic the Ripper by opting to cut Ellen post mortem OR he was the Ripper trying to leave us a clue as to his true identity.

I favour Bury as the latter. It's important to note how rare post mortem mutilation actually is.