Escalation: What would Jack do after Mary Kelly?

[Abby Normal]

Is it reasonable to assume that there is a definite escalation of violence and ferocity with each of the canonical victims, excluding Liz Stride (but interruption could have been the reason for this being an anomoly)?

If so, what do we think Jack could possibly have done after killing Mary Kelly? I can't see how he could possibly have done anything worse than that, and can't think of any murders since that could be comparable in atrociousness (though I don't doubt there could have been).

I can't see how any human mind could possibly remain intact after witnessing let alone carrying out such an atrocity, leaving me to believe the perpetrator must have either had a complete mental breakdown, or took his own life.

Anyone agree/disagree? Is it possible for someone to fade back into 'normal' life after committing such a crime? Any knowledge shared would be most appreciated.

Dennis Rader-BTK, Murdered an entire family as his first known murder and then continued with more murders with less "atrocity". he also quit without being caught but after many years re-engaged with police(which eventually lead to his capture) because a book was being written about BTK.

He was found to be a "normal" man with wife and kids and a leader of his church.

[MrTwibbs]

Yes I was just thinking that about Rader and him being able to stop for a few years. Serial killers you have to understand are able to compartmentalise those aspects of their life. Imagine two brains, one slightly independent from the other. The "darker" part only surfacing when certain conditions are met able to come out at when needed, but most of the time during normal life the person is far detatched from being a brutal murdererer. This is the "day and night" archetypal serial killer and not disimilar to Jekyll and Hyde.

As mentioned by someone it could be all down to MO and that the Ripper was able to brutalise and mutilate Kelly so badly due to this. Whereas previous murders not so and any murders after Kelly may have gone the same way. perhaps he or she was being more careful as well and realising he had to be quick in fear of discovery. this is how a serial killer adapts to their own circumstances and they evolve so to speak.

All of these are likely I think but then again he may well have shown mental instability even during his more coherent behaviour and only got to vent it fully after hours

I'm new to the forum so please go easy on me.

[MrTwibbs]

It's hard to believe the urge to kill would have faded though and that his appetite would be completely sated by the murders. If he did never kill again, but continued living a 'normal' life, would the fact that he had committed these atrocities and gotten away with it be satisfaction enough for him? It's tempting to come back to the theory that MJK was the ultimate target/prize/trophy, and that once she was dead there was no longer any need to go on. Hutchinson still seems a likely candidate to me.

were all the faces of the known 5 victims cut or mutilated in anyway?
if they were then it is very possibly JTR knew each of them as the cutting of the face indicates some connection or relationship with them.
Or at least thats what experts say

[Fleetwood Mac]

Is it reasonable to assume that there is a definite escalation of violence and ferocity with each of the canonical victims, excluding Liz Stride (but interruption could have been the reason for this being an anomoly)?

If so, what do we think Jack could possibly have done after killing Mary Kelly? I can't see how he could possibly have done anything worse than that, and can't think of any murders since that could be comparable in atrociousness (though I don't doubt there could have been).

I can't see how any human mind could possibly remain intact after witnessing let alone carrying out such an atrocity, leaving me to believe the perpetrator must have either had a complete mental breakdown, or took his own life.

Anyone agree/disagree? Is it possible for someone to fade back into 'normal' life after committing such a crime? Any knowledge shared would be most appreciated.

I'd imagine that serial killers.....and some of the stuff they do is absolutely unfathomable to the more reasonable among us....do not have a mental breakdown and do not kill themselves. I would discount these.

Leaving the following options.....

He was incarcerated for a different crime......

He moved abroad.....

He died.....

He was caught but for whatever reason it wasn't made public.....

The killings were politically motivated and the objective had been achieved.

I don't think it's an option to suggest he would have stopped killing.....my understanding is that serial killers need their fix and don't stop.

In my view.....he wasn't a career criminal.....nor involved in any political group.....butchering women was his thing.....and it would have been very difficult to keep his capture out of the public domain.

I'd go for he moved abroad.

[MrTwibbs]

I'd imagine that serial killers.....and some of the stuff they do is absolutely unfathomable to the more reasonable among us....do not have a mental breakdown and do not kill themselves. I would discount these.

Leaving the following options.....

He was incarcerated for a different crime......

He moved abroad.....

He died.....

He was caught but for whatever reason it wasn't made public.....

The killings were politically motivated and the objective had been achieved.

I don't think it's an option to suggest he would have stopped killing.....my understanding is that serial killers need their fix and don't stop.

In my view.....he wasn't a career criminal.....nor involved in any political group.....butchering women was his thing.....and it would have been very difficult to keep his capture out of the public domain.

I'd go for he moved abroad.

Serial killers adapt to their personal circumstances and its possible due to old age, ill health he or she may have been forced to curb their "excesses"
Alternatively it is also possible if this person was suffering from some sort of brain disease, i.e.syphilis that his/her MO changed. A bit like how hand writing changes over time or if a person has suffered some illness.

[Observer]

I don't think it's an option to suggest he would have stopped killing.....my understanding is that serial killers need their fix and don't stop.

I'd go for he moved abroad.

Any suggestions regarding which country had the misfortune to house and subsequently suffer his continuing murderous activities?

Mr Twibbs makes a good point, serial killers do adapt to their life's changing circumstances. Gary Ridgeway the Green River killer stopped murdering for 25 years, the fact that he got married could well have been a factor in his decision to halt his murdering ways.

Observer

[Hunter]

Good point and that proves that some serial killers do stop for whatever reason.

Be careful trying to rationalize the irrational.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Mr Twibbs makes a good point, serial killers do adapt to their life's changing circumstances. Gary Ridgeway the Green River killer stopped murdering for 25 years, the fact that he got married could well have been a factor in his decision to halt his murdering ways.

Observer

Exceptions to the rule......

So you do you go with exception or rule?

[Observer]

Exception or rule? I don't know, and neither do you, each serial killer is unique. Ridgeway decided to stop killing. If you are going to speculate however lets have some backup. If you are of the opinion that JTR left the Country, and that serial killers must have their kicks, have you any suggestions as to which country he relocated to? Are there any incidents of murder and mutilation reported in the world's press which would suggest that JTR had left Britain?

Observer

[HollyDolly]

What you just said makes sense.In the book,Open Files by Jay Robert Nash, under the Zodiac Killer he makes mention of the fact that you have serial killers who for whatever reason stop killing,and says much of what you have stated.I guess we really will never know.

[Johnr]

Could Montague Druitt Play Cricket After Killing M.J.Kelly?

Alright,

I am one of the non-cognicenti who would not realise a killer could suddenly switch off after say, the wholesale slaughter of a victim like Mary Jane Kelly.

Sure, I understand it is unwise to try to understand the workings of the mind of such a person.

So, the London Metropolitan Police at Scotland Yard should not have been studying the Death Registers -mistakenly believing their quarry could only cease by killing himself- or the Asylum Intake Registers...

But rather they should have been studying the Marriage Registers?

Surely, the point is ninety-nine point nine percent of killers would not have been able to "blend back into society as a normal person" afterwards.

I still think the serial killer cases quoted above, (ones who stopped killing and functioned "normally").....are extremely rare exceptions.

How would they cope when there was a Road Rage incident?

JOHN RUFFELS.

[Jonathan H]

It's a fair question, but I would argue that it is looking at it from the wrong way round.

We can never get closer than what senior police believed.

We can never get closer than the best arguments between Kosminski, Tumblety and Druitt [others would also add Chapman, though I would not].

If you believe -- and nobody does but me -- that Macnaghten made a careful and detailed investigation of Druitt, though discreet and unofficial, then he faced this question too.

Druitt had been the murderer, he decided, and so Druitt could blend back into society without arousing the slightest suspicion amongst respectable people: '... such madness takes protean forms ...'

The counter-argument is that in every version Macnaghten gives us -- except notably his 1913 comments -- he claims the exact opposite regarding the killer's movements immediately after the Kelly murder; the final atrocity.

That Druitt's alleged 'awful glut' in Miller's Ct. left him unable to function, unable to live, his mind imploded over his own horror, though he did manage -- through some herculean effort -- to stumble, and stagger his way to the Thames and throw his annihilated husk into the watery depths -- at Chiswick no less!

[Ashkenaz]

violent killers had invariably started by horribly killing animals before graduating to humans. I think that it is very likely that Jack had already done a 'Kelly type crime' on animals before killing Polly.

Many serial killers produce a pattern which is called - The Mcdonald Triad. This refers to their history. as children they tended to set fires, torture animals and bed-wet beyond the age of eleven.

I think the fire thing allows them to vent their desire for destruction. The animal torture is lkely to be about inflicting pain, control and domination. I imagine the bed wetting is a response to the child abuse they have usually suffered.

Serial killers do not always have this history, but many do. Some may have two or less. Most I think, are likely to have all three.

[D.B.Wagstaff]

A Personal Perspective

I've been reading this thread with some interest, and thought I would toss a personal perspective into the discussion, though it doesn't fit the case of Jack specifically.

I was interviewed and was a witness in the trial of a close family friend who brutally murdered his wife and was privy to some information from the investigators of the crime. I won't reveal the name of the murderer, out of respect for his family, but will give the circumstances.

The killer was male, late 30s, and universally known to all that knew him as a very sweet-tempered non-violent man. He had been the victim of a kidnapping/robbery and, unbeknownst to anyone except his family, had suffered amnesia due to a blow to the head. He was found wandering aimlessly after the crime, but seemed recover fully over time.

However, again, known only to his family, he continued to have episodes were he would "black-out" and be discovered days later doing things totally out of character for him: joining the merchant marines under an assumed name and losing his entire paycheck in Las Vegas, for example.

One night he killed his wife, brutally strangling her with her nylons and bashing her head in with a fireplace poker. He fled the scene and was captured just as he was leaving on a ship as a laborer under an assumed name.

Psychiatric evaluation revealed he was schzophrenic - one personality was the sweet respectable person everyone knew, the other a very dark, manipulative, and sadistic alter-ego. His "dark" personality felt his "regular" personality was weak and stupid and he had to take over to keep others from "walking all over him". Under hypnosis the pscyhiatrists could call the "dark side" out and the change was unbelievable - I viewed the videotape of one of the sessions -you could hardly recognize the man as being the same person. Each personality was completely compartmentalized from the other and although the "dark personality knew what was going on with the "normal" one, the "normal" had no memory of the actions of the "dark side".

Investigators and psychiatrists firmly believe had this man not been caught committing this first murder (if, indeed it was his first, as they believe) he would have killed again. They also believe nobody he was in contact with would have suspected the danger that lurked beneath his "normal" exterior.

Investigators and prosecutors who are very dubious about claims of "insanity" were thoroughly convinced in this case, and the murderer was institutionalized for extensive treatment (years) and has been released - very closely monitored and still under extensive treatment -without further incident.

The "experts" believe the schzophrenia and subsequent murderous impulse were brought on by the blow to the head when the subject was kidnapped, and there were no other violent crimes committed, but one has to wonder . . .

If this incident had not been proven beyond a reasonable doubt, I never - ever - would have believe this person was capable of such brutality. Would he have killed again? Had he killed before? I don't know, but trust me - he would have been able to fade into the woodwork unsuspected had he not been caught.

[protohistorian]

Elizabeth Jackson? Dave