Motive....

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hello all.......

My understanding is that the murders took seconds to commit........what do people feel this means for motive (if anything)? Would a woman hating sadist set out to make quick kills?

[kensei]

I believe the motive was indeed the same as with so many serial killers today- hatred of women and sexual thrill. The Ripper had to be fast out of necessity, because then as now London was one of the most populous cities in the world and passers-by could appear at any moment. He had to learn to take his thrills in fast doses, though of course he always wanted more. With the privacy of being indoors, I believe he was with Mary Kelly for as much as two hours (for most of which she was dead). He also may have been with Liz Stride for a couple of hours before attacking her, though that is iffy. If so, he would have been getting off on the thrill of the anticipation of what he was planning to do to her when the time was right. But with Polly, Annie, and Kate, he was with each of them for only a few minutes.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Well.....assuming Kelly was a ripper victim.....it's the only time he had time so to speak.

Were he a sadist surely he wouldn't have killed her quickly. And assuming he hated women so much then surely he would have had a desire to inflict pain while she was alive.

I find it a bit odd.....though admittedly I'm no psychologist (which is important only where you actually place faith in their mind reading - I'm not convinced).

Does anyone know of any other cases where serial killers have killed their victims swiftly? I'd imagine the vast majority toy with their victims as part of the game/control.

[sdreid]

I can think of several serial killers who killed swiftly - to name one, the Cleveland Torso Slayer. In most instances, the cause of death was decapitation with no antemortem injury.

The one Ripper connected murder that was an act of sadism was the Emma Smith attack. Tabram is a possible also or at least it was an act of terror whether that was its purpose or not.

[Fleetwood Mac]

I can think of several serial killers who killed swiftly - to name one, the Cleveland Torso Slayer.

The one Ripper connected murder that was an act of sadism was the Emma Smith attack.

Thanks for the info.

Out of interest.....the Cleveland bloke......what was his motive?

And....Emma Smith....what was the sadistic act?

Thanks.

[DVV]

Hi Fleetwood Mac,

JtR has been defined as a "necro-sadist", a strange category, I have to admit...
I have no doubt about Kelly being her victim, and MJK1 and Bond's report tell us what the poor guy liked to do... Mutilations, trophy, perhaps cannibalism...

Amitiés,
David

[Suzi]

FM
If you don't know what happened to Emma Smith- read up!

[DVV]

FM
If you don't know what happened to Emma Smith- read up!

Here is a clue :
something that DeSalvo did several times.

Amitiés,
David

[Suzi]

Are we giving hints to FM or what?

[sdreid]

Hi Mac,

It's unsure what the Cleveland guys motive was unless he just liked to kill people in that fashion, probably after drugging them, and then cutting them up and scattering their remains. One letter, supposedly from him, hinted that he was trying to develop some sort of head transplant surgery but that correspondence is generally considered to be a hoax. He didn't care about the sex of the victim.

[DVV]

Are we giving hints to FM or what?

Good Friday, Suzi.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleetwood Mac,

JtR has been defined as a "necro-sadist", a strange category, I have to admit...
I have no doubt about Kelly being her victim, and MJK1 and Bond's report tell us what the poor guy liked to do... Mutilations, trophy, perhaps cannibalism...

Amitiés,
David

I would have thought a sadist would have derived pleasure from the victim being alive. Surely sadism is emotional (the emotions drive the actions) and the fear induced in the victim is part of the game for a sadist? A quick kill seems to have an element of compassion in a strange sort of way - and a sadist really does not care about the welfare of a victim. Don't sadists like to tie up a victim (or a partner where consented to) and inflict emotional and physical pain while the victim is alive - in order to feed off the fear?

[Fleetwood Mac]

FM
If you don't know what happened to Emma Smith- read up!

Ahhh come on Superintendent Suzi......can't you educate me? I'll buy your book on the matter in return?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Mac,

It's unsure what the Cleveland guys motive was unless he just liked to kill people in that fashion, probably after drugging them, and then cutting them up and scattering their remains. One letter, supposedly from him, hinted that he was trying to develop some sort of head transplant surgery but that correspondence is generally considered to be a hoax. He didn't care about the sex of the victim.

Thanks for the info SDReid.

Quite interesting that and perhaps there is shades of Jack in the sense he may not fit into a neat and tidy box in terms of motive.

[DVV]

I would have thought a sadist would have derived pleasure from the victim being alive. Surely sadism is emotional (the emotions drive the actions) and the fear induced in the victim is part of the game for a sadist? A quick kill seems to have an element of compassion in a strange sort of way - and a sadist really does not care about the welfare of a victim. Don't sadists like to tie up a victim (or a partner where consented to) and inflict emotional and physical pain while the victim is alive - in order to feed off the fear?

Well, what can I say ?
JtR was apparently not a necrophiliac, nor a sadist, but a "necro-sadist" - deriving his pleasure from the mutilations he inflicted on dead bodies.

Amitiés,
David