Was Jack inevitable?

[Observer]

Hi again Cap'n Jack

Looking at my two latest posts might I say that composing posts while downing a few bottles of Double Maxim ale do not mix......hic

Not that I'm an alcoholic, it's purely for medicinal purposes you know.

But I beleive you are quite right in maintaining that court records could well throw out a name that might be of interest to the posters who contribute to this forum.

I know it's dangerous to pidgeon- hole the miscreants who fall under the catergory "serial killer", but going on what I have read, a good deal of them seem to fall foul of the law prior to going on to establish their series of murders.

The Russian authorities apparently try and spot the would be serial killer early on, scrutinising school reports, petty offender reports etc. in order to nip the would be serial killer in the bud. It seems to me a mammoth task, but I suppose if they nip one would be serial killer in the bud then it would be worthwhile.

We have a fairly good description of the man who attacked Ada Wilson, her description of him being sunburned might throw some light on the matter, for I doubt whether he achieved a tan here in this country in February, he could have been a seaman just returned from sunny climes of course. Perhaps there are police, or court records lurking somewhere that might pin this man down, press reports could also prove valuable.

I'll Stop this post here as it is now flowing into an Ada Wilson, cum sunburned suspect thread.

Observer

[Cap'n Jack]

Thanks, Observer, as you may know I enjoy an occasional glass now and then.
Regarding the red-faced man. I did speculate a long time ago that this may have been the result of using a mercury solution on his face.

[diana]

Proven by the Opposite Case?

How many times in human history has a brilliant person come along with a great idea, and been laughed into obscurity. A generation or two later their ideas are accepted.

There is some kind of chemistry that goes on between the person and his times.

[Doctor X]

How many times in human history has a brilliant person come along with a great idea, and been laughed into obscurity. A generation or two later their ideas are accepted.

Far less often than crackpots who wish to support their foolishness with fallacious appeals would have you believe.

Yours truly,

--J.D.

[JSchmidt]

The only things that made Jack inevitable were the combination of societal impact, his personal life and experiences and maybe some contributing genetics.
The East End seems to have been rife with casual violence, but as we do not know whether he was a local or if it was only his "hunting ground" it is hard to say if the climate made his crimes unavoidable.
Social unrest seems more of logical conclusion of the East End's condition.

[vbede]

The only things that made Jack inevitable were the combination of societal impact, his personal life and experiences and maybe some contributing genetics.
The East End seems to have been rife with casual violence, but as we do not know whether he was a local or if it was only his "hunting ground" it is hard to say if the climate made his crimes unavoidable.
Social unrest seems more of logical conclusion of the East End's condition.

Good points. It is conclusions like this that then beg further questions which can enlighten us. Why didn't he attack in the West End? There's of course no possible way of being right with such answers, but it can be informative.

One hypothesis: My own belief would be that he struck where he did b/c he was familiar with that area. I don't believe he cared much about the fact that it would be easier to kill and get away with it in the East than the West. I base this on my belief that he was quite a risk taker. I don't think he had a desire to be caught, but he certainly didn't go to great pains to ensure he wouldn't be caught in the act. Had he been more familiar with the West End, or Birmingham, or Glasgow, or wherever, he would have killed there.

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Jack inevitable? A societal product of his times? Interesting thread.

But don't forget, there is always the possibility that Jack the Ripper never existed in the first place—except, of course, in the minds of his creators.

And who could they have been, and for what reason?

Regards,

Simon

[YankeeSergeant]

Inevitable

Jack the Ripper was inevitable. Crimes like that would have happened and indeed had before What makes Jack unique is that he was the first recognized serial killer.
If we look at Elisabeth Batory we see that Jack was not the first. By today's standards, and likely those of 16th century Hungary, she was insane. What got her caught was the fact the one of the virgins she killed so she would have virgin's blood. She was walled up in her castle ratehr than put to death. There are other cases including the slave owner in New Orleans who chained and abused her slaves and killed several of them.She managed to elude the death penalty as well. I suspect that there were several more who got by with it under the guise of authority.
Jack had no color of authority and he or someone, publicized his deeds for the press. That was the big factor. A few years later H.H. Holmes would kill several women in Chicago So yes, JAck was inevitable in my humble opinion.

[Doctor X]

By today's standards, and likely those of 16th century Hungary, she was insane.

I am not certain about that. Having no respect for the life of "lower classes" does not make one insane.

What got her caught was the fact the one of the virgins she killed so she would have virgin's blood.

Help me with that sentence.

--J.D.

[Dan Norder]

Bathory did not kill virgin girls to get their blood. That claim wasn't even made until long after she was dead. At the trial where they made all sorts of wild accusations drug up through torturing witnesses (many of which duplicate all the standard charges found in the witch hunts of the time) they didn't come up with that, and surely with everything else they were throwing at her they would have thrown that out too if there were any truth to it.

[dougie]

Killers,serial or otherwise are inevitable regardless of the environment they operate in.If there had been no East End "Jack" would still have found somewhere to ply his trade.And no doubt would have also found a justification for his acts,be they in Pall mall or on Portsmouth Pier.
regards

[YankeeSergeant]

My bad

I was unaware those claims weren't extant from the time. I stand corrected.Is it disputed that she was killing girls in the villages surrounding her castle? The other sentance should be she got caught because she allegedly killed a girl of noble birth. AS to her insanity., No loathing the lower classes doesn't make one insane. Killing them wholesale would classify though. Neil

[Dan Norder]

Hey Neil,

Well, just about everything is disputed to some extent or another, depending upon who is talking. Some have tried to argue she was innocent of all charges, but most experts don't go quite that far. The general consensus seems to be that she was a cruel person whose complete disregard for the people she considered less important than herself led to deaths, but how many and how active she was in trying to get them killed (as compared to just not caring that the harsh treatment meant some died) is unknown. But, in a period when torturing witnesses to extract confessions of witchcraft was considered acceptable, she was certainly not the only person abusing a position of power.

[Doctor X]

Killing them wholesale would classify though. Neil

Actually it would not.

--J.D.

[Godgifu]

We have a fairly good description of the man who attacked Ada Wilson, her description of him being sunburned might throw some light on the matter, for I doubt whether he achieved a tan here in this country in February, he could have been a seaman just returned from sunny climes of course. Perhaps there are police, or court records lurking somewhere that might pin this man down, press reports could also prove valuable.

As a very pale person, I can tell you, you can get sunburnt at any time, even if it's cloudy. All you have to do is stand around outside, or even near a window, for a while in the daytime. My grandmother once got a sunburn while it was raining.

However, that would indicate the fellow wasn't usually a person to hang around outside a lot (or else he'd have enough tan to defend against it) but for whatever reason recently had been outdoors for a long period.