Diversity in the Muders

[Blackkat]

Are there enough differences in any of the murders to think that there may have been two killers at any point? I was reading through some of the victim area and I do believe there are some differences.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi BK,

Are there enough differences in any of the murders to think that there may have been two killers at any point? I was reading through some of the victim area and I do believe there are some differences.

There are plenty of differences, but the real question is whether they can be deemed significant. It's also important to assess, as far as possible, whether the factors in question were within the killer's sphere of control. It's easy to find apparent differences that satisfy neither criteria.

[Tom_Wescott]

Blackkat,

What you're suggesting is possible. For instance, let's speculate that Pipeman and BS Man were in fact working in tandem and did in fact kill Stride. What if Pipeman were the 'real' Ripper and BS Man merely his gopher of sorts, used to lure the women to him (remember that BS Man was seen pulling Stride AWAY from Dutfield's Yard). Due to Schwartz, who was pursued by Pipeman, BS Man may have been compelled to commit this murder, allowing for any perceivable differences. I just noticed your post and had only a bit ago posted something along similar lines on the Mary Ann Nichols thread currently active. My post is as follows:

It's not impossible that it was two killers working in tandem. Not impossible at all. I'm not saying I support that conclusion but I don't rule it out. Consider:

* Dr. Killeen's belief that two weapons were used in the murder of Tabram.
* Harriett Lilley hearing two people whispering over Nichols' corpse.
* Schwartz's testimony of two men he felt (but wasn't sure) were known to each other.
* The man near Mitre Square who asked James Blenkinsop if he'd seen a couple come through right before the murder of Eddowes.
* A man standing just outside Millers Court and staring up the court, possibly keeping look out.
* Alice Mackenzie (or was it Coles?) seen talking with two men, ala Pipeman and BS Man, prior to her murder.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

P.S. Jon Guy replied to me on the other thread and said I was thinking of Rose Mylett and not Mackenzie or Coles regarding the last point.

[Sam Flynn]

Blackkat,

What you're suggesting is possible. For instance, let's speculate that Pipeman and BS Man were in fact working in tandem and did in fact kill Stride.

I think Blackkat meant "different killers", Tom, rather than "two killers working in tandem", but I may be wrong.

[Tom_Wescott]

I didn't get that, Sam, since Black was suggesting on the Nichols thread that the two men Harriett Lilley heard whispering were the killers.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Sam Flynn]

I didn't get that, Sam, since Black was suggesting on the Nichols thread that the two men Harriett Lilley heard whispering were the killers.

...in which case, Tom and BK, I apologise. That said, and if such is the case, perhaps a better title for the discussion might have been "Cooperation in the murders", as opposed to "Diversity..."

[Blackkat]

Hey guys thanks so much for your posts, I'm sorry I didn't post a little more clearly that seems to be a fault of mine in a lot of my post DURRRR,

I did mean two working together. I, just like Tom, don't know if I support that theory 100% but I know that I haven't read many of the books published in the last 8-9 years, only the ones before that and I wanted to see if any of you guys or gals had any knowledge (new insight) on how it could have been two killers working together. I just wanted some info that I may not have. So far it seems that you guys have given some good info. I'd welcome anything more from you or anyone else. It's very interesting.

[Blackkat]

Does anyone know what muders are??

[sdreid]

Horses that run well on a wet track

[Doctor X]

Does anyone know what muders are??

Someone who loves you all very much, as much as your fudders. . . .



Anyways, Newbie wonders what would the likelihood of two serial killers stopping with just five "Canonical" murders or more. It seems to me that the killer progressed in his methods from slashing the neck to dissection with facial mutilation to the Mary Kelly butchering done in the privacy of a room. Seems to me that he was developing his technique as well as increasing his presumed kink.

Which makes why he stopped--even if you include a few more victims to the List of Five--that more surprising. If one assumes he died/got caught for something else/moved/stole a time machine, why did his companion stop?

Why would he have a companion for only one murder?

I am just wondering why both of them would stop.



Yours truly,

--J.D.

[sdreid]

Hi J.D.

Sometimes team killers stop when the pair breaks up. The whole is equal to more than the sum of its parts.

[Blackkat]

Yeah like rock bands. LOL!


You know what I don't know why both would stop at the same time - in the case of JtR IF they both stopped ( there were other murders going on ) that would have to depend on why they were killing, and who the killers were. That explaination we'll never know and without that, you can't answer it, all you can do is surmise. Good question though, I was thinking of that last night, and when I checked in you had asked. What would stop them? Did the partner in crime die? Did they accomplish what they set out to do? Dun know.

[Doctor X]

That is pretty much my question.

I do not see the individuals stopping.

Yours truly,

--J.D.

[perrymason]

Hi BlackKat, all,

If youre speaking of the type of wounds that were inflicted on each victim, assuming Liz was "Killus Interruptus" and a Ripper slaying, then the throat cut alone, so significant in the cause of death, varied.

If your speaking of differences in terms of location, approach, acquisition, then Mary Kelly stands out as the square peg for that round hole, and if you're speaking of the Canonical displays that lead us to conclude if he has time he will mutilate post mortem, then you have Liz as the anomaly...because as per Dr Blackwells on-site estimate around 1:17 of her time of death, the cut causing it was made at least 4 minutes before Diemshutz pulls in.

So yeah....there are real and significant differences in some of these.

My best regards BK, all.