JTR: Native or Foreigner?

[JTRSickert]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to get everyone's opinion about a certain matter concerning this case. In 2006, JTR was named the worst British person in History; however, we cannot be definitely sure he was even of that nationality. So, if we assume that Jack was the "Unknown Local Man" and not one of the aforementioned celebrity suspects, what does everyone think? Was Jack a native Londoner or, at the very least, one of Her Majesty's loyal British subjects, or one of the many foreigners that lived in the East End. it's really difficult argument. For example, we have some witness statements like Mrs. Long saying he had a "foreign appearance" and George Hutchinson saying his appearance was "Jewish." However, if Hutchinson is to be believed, Mary Kelly seemed to be conversing with the gentleman rather easily, so no appearance of a language barrier. However, if the Lusk letter is genuine, then it looks to be a person writing in either Irish phrases or possibly the work of an immigrant who is writing English the way he hears it.

So, what does everyone think? Was Jack a native or foreign?

[JackDaw]

Hi JTRSickert, oddly I was actually just thinking of this very topic before I logged on.

I think he was native English and a possibly longterm local resident.

Why? Just a feeling. A bland, ordinary guy who can move about without rousing any suspicion amongst the frightened populace seems the likely sort.
All that talk and suggestion of a Jewish involvement may have helped distract away from a regular, dull and boring local.
The whole Jewish angle has always seemed slightly racist to me as far as reading reports from the time.

As for an Irish Ripper - We Irish are much too kind and gentle to be involved in anything so horrible, surely?!


PS: JTRSickert - love your 'The Prisoner' quote!

[DVV]

Hi Jack,

I agree he was certainly a local.

However, from Ireland :

"I recall we took care of him one Sunday
We got him at the back and we broke his *****ng balls
And maybe that was dreamin' and maybe that was real
But all I know is that I left the place without a penny or f*ck all..."

And again :

"The boys and me are drunk and looking for you
We'll eat your frigging entrails and we won't give a damn..."

Amitiés,
David

[JackDaw]

Hi Jack,

I agree he was certainly a local.

However, from Ireland :

"I recall we took care of him one Sunday
We got him at the back and we broke his *****ng balls
And maybe that was dreamin' and maybe that was real
But all I know is that I left the place without a penny or f*ck all..."

And again :

"The boys and me are drunk and looking for you
We'll eat your frigging entrails and we won't give a damn..."

Amitiés,
David

DVV,

Everyone knows Irish are all talk no action!

[DVV]

....and you say this one minute before France / Ireland ?

Psychologic cheating!


Good luck my friend,
David

[Edward]

I believe Jack was a native

Hello All

Jack certainly had the ability to blend in with the locals (or at very least, had the ability to not stand out). In all probability, his escapes were accomplished on foot. So, the likelihood of encountering other pedestrians and not attract attention speaks to his ability to blend. It seems that his walking pace was one that could get him away from the scene of a crime, but not so rapid that he called attention to himself.

I wonder what percentage of the Whitechapel area actually were foreigners? If foreigners represent a substantial number of the local populace, a person of “foreign appearance” might not necessarily stand out. I think that I have read more than once on the Forum that “foreign” appearance was a euphemism for “Jewish” in appearance, further complicating witness statements/descriptions. I too believe that the Jewish issue was a red herring.

I believe Jack was a native, very familiar and comfortable with his surroundings. I believe that Jack was cunning, and perhaps lucky on occasion, but not a criminal mastermind. I believe that much of his “luck” relates to when he committed the crimes: 1888. The London police had not encountered a serial killer before, and did not seem to know how to proceed. Forensics was in its infancy. Multiple jurisdictions involved.

Comments?

All the Best,
Edward

[DaveMc]

Does "foreign" mean non-anglo saxon or not born and raised in the local culture?

[JackDaw]

....and you say this one minute before France / Ireland ?

Psychologic cheating!

Well, it certainly didn't work!
More of a football fan myself. The memory of Henri's handball still lingers....



Quote Edward:
I believe Jack was a native, very familiar and comfortable with his surroundings. I believe that Jack was cunning, and perhaps lucky on occasion, but not a criminal mastermind. I believe that much of his “luck” relates to when he committed the crimes: 1888. The London police had not encountered a serial killer before, and did not seem to know how to proceed. Forensics was in its infancy. Multiple jurisdictions involved.

Comments?

Hi Edward,

Yeah, I doubt he was a criminal mastermind. He was just lucky.

A bit like Robert Napper or Peter Sutcliffe any many other killers.
I think the Jewish/foreign angle may have distracted the attention of both police and ordinary people.
Just like that 'Weirside Jack' hoax call sent the police investigation in the wrong direction with the Yorkshire Ripper, conflicting eyewitness accounts meant that instead of looking for 6foot 3 inch Napper the police were hunting a much shorter man.
Look at the Washington Sniper killings were everyone was on the look out for a white van with tinted windows when the killers were in a blue car.


(BTW, Just finished reading a book on killer Robert Napper ('Killer in the Shadows' - by Marie Eyre & Laurance Alison) . Despite being interesting from a criminal/geographical profiling angle, the authors of the book made many obvious mistakes regarding references to the Jack the Ripper crimes. They even managed to claim that Annie Chapman was the first victim!)

[mklhawley]

According to Donald Rumbelow, Whitechapel was a haven for butchering cattle. If JTR was a local person, how about him being a butcher down on my luck and had no problems working in blood?

Mike

[mklhawley]

According to Donald Rumbelow, Whitechapel was a haven for butchering cattle. If JTR was a local person, how about him being a butcher down on my luck and had no problems working in blood?

Mike

...excuse the typo of "down on my luck". I was JTR in my 8th life!

[Patches]

Interesting about the term "foriegn". After all, couldn't JtR have been a native Englishman of non-English extraction. I'm sure there were waves of immigrants arriving in London long before the 1880's and Jack could have easily been of the first generation English born in his family. If you believe the Goulston street writting is real, and that the word "Lipski" was in deed a racial slur, then you could build a case for a self loathing person who harboured a great deal of hate for his ancestors. But then again, it's all speculation!

[curious]

If you believe the Goulston street writting is real, and that the word "Lipski" was in deed a racial slur, then you could build a case for a self loathing person who harboured a great deal of hate for his ancestors. But then again, it's all speculation!

Jacob Levy comes to my mind here.

curious

[doris]

I too was wondering if Jack was a local or a foreigner.

My thoughts were, assuming Jack shouted Lipski at Schwarz would a newcomer be aware of the Lipski case? Or would use of that insult show that the shouter was well aware of local culture, and therefore probably either a local, or had been in the area some time?


And talking of the Lipski case how the devil did Lipski get a lady to quaff acid, and why did he have a swig himself?

doris

[YankeeSergeant]

Conundrum

It's a conundrum. I believe he was native or a foreigner who had lived in Whitechapel for several years prior to the murders. He knew his way around Whitechapel and if he wrote ANY of the letters had a fair command of English both written and verbal. How many trades would there be that could walk about with blood ontheir clothes in Whitechapel Butchers, sochets, fishmongers, veteranarians, midwives, doctors You get my point here. Many of these folks would appear harmless to the Nichols and Eddows ilk. Our boy (If there were only one) knew his way around and had some street savvy. I'd go cautiously with native born.

[Triplesod]

Hi Jack,

I agree he was certainly a local.

However, from Ireland :

"I recall we took care of him one Sunday
We got him at the back and we broke his *****ng balls
And maybe that was dreamin' and maybe that was real
But all I know is that I left the place without a penny or f*ck all..."

And again :

"The boys and me are drunk and looking for you
We'll eat your frigging entrails and we won't give a damn..."

Amitiés,
David

Written by an Englishman though, no matter how green he likes to think he is.