Would JTR been famous elsewhere?

[JTRSickert]

Quick question...Does anyone think Jack would have been just as famous if his murders occured in another city? Like, if he had committed his murders in, say, Birmingham, Liverpool, Hull, Cardiff, Edinburgh, or Glasgow? Or, is it because he struck in not only the capital of England and the U.K., but the very heart of the British Empire, the largest empire in the world at that time? Would we be just as intrigued if his murders occured in any of the cities I've mentioned or just be another minor killer with little or no passing interest?

[DVV]

Had he been from Hull, Mike Covell would have been more famous.

Amitiés,
David

[JTRSickert]

DVV,

That's one of the rasons why I decided to include that location.

[looby64]

Good question, I think your'e right about its location, the Queens home and all that, anywhere else it may have been slightly lower key which is wrong but thats how things were.
x Looby

[Mike Covell]

After the Whitechapel Murders there was a flurry of press reports extending well after 1888 including other "Jack the Rippers" including an Indian, African, American, Australian, and German Jack the Ripper. There was also the crimes involving (or not) Deeming, Cream, Cutbush, and Sadler, which were also labled with Jack the Ripper.

So yes, I think he would have been just has famous.

Hull, at the time, had several newspapers, local, national and international distribution channels, and was one of the largest ports in the world so I reckon if it did happen here it would have been all over the press.

As an example, Joseph Dawber, Robert D'Onston Stephenson's cousin, was discovered to be defrauding numerous people via his solicitors firm, and was sent to jail. The crime was reported in just over 100 newspapers, and that was nothing as serious as the ripper crimes.

[smezenen]

I think because of the brutality of his crimes he would have gained the same notoriety no matter where he committed his crimes in 1888. However change the year to 2010 and maybe he wouldn’t get so much attention. I think people have become desensitized by many other crimes that are just as brutal and with all the true crime and CSI type television programs in the last 10 years.

[kensei]

I do not think he would have been as famous, because he is a part of the melodrama of London lore and I think that was one of the major factors in how history has recorded him. Perhaps he would have still been famous within Britain in another city, but do a "man on the street" survey in America asking people if they know where Hull is and most will never even have heard of it.

[Gman992]

No. Let's not forgot, England ruled the world--hence the phrase-"The Sun Never Set on the British Empire" Obvisiously, they never visited Whitechapel. It's another example of what I like to call a great disconnect. The greatest Empire to rule the world since Rome with all it's riches and wealth while just a hop, jump, and a skip down from the most miserable conditions ever convinced. Of course, it didn't help that Fleet Street--with all it's papers was right down the street, and the savageness of the crimes. Remember, they all said that An englishman couldn't have done those things.

[Dave James]

Hi all,

Paul Begg, in 'The Definitive History' posits that
"...Jack the Ripper would probably have been forgotten had he murdered somewhere else, at some other time, or murdered upper-class women rather than the lowest prostitute."

I think this is possibly true, but I think the main reason he is remembered, apart from not being known, is that he struck in and at the heart of the empire, as has previously been posted.

All the best
Dave

[ghoulstonstreet]

Interesting question, Sick. If JTR had acted elsewhere I do not think the legend would have gotten so huge. For many of us on the outside of England looking in, especially at the end of the 19th century, England was viewed as THE most civilized of civilized places. I know that seems silly to the English, who know of the class struggles and East End poverty and all the rest, but to the outside England was held up high. To have these grotesque and obscene crimes happen in "the Queen's City" was really beyond shocking. It still is! That's why we're still hanging on to it.
And as silly as it was to worship "the Queen's English" so to speak, I know it's equally silly to say "but in all other places, well, of COURSE, that's where miscreants dwell...", and that's how it would have been viewed. Same old, same old human viciousness. "Next".
Hey, Sick, do you have that username because you believe Sickert was the killer? If not please explain. Thanks, Best to you.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

Just couldn't help making this point;

Would The Son Of Sam have become famous in any other city than New York?!

All the best
Jukka

[DirectorDave]

No, not quite.

For me the London location is a big draw.....gas lit streets, cobble (sorry set!) stoned streets....Sherlock Holmes...Jeckyl & Hyde it all adds to the legend for me.

Edinburgh may have held a similar draw.....obviously Holmes, Jeckyl and Hyde even Burke and Hair were all connected to Edinburgh.

I think the amount and quality of the newspapers had a lot to do with the longevity of the Ripper and London had that.

And England never ruled the world.....in the same way it is not an Island.

[smezenen]

I’ve been doing a little thinking on this subject since my last post.
Here is what’s been rattling around in my braincase;
Let’s take a look around the world in 1888, we find plenty of other killers with at least a few being in London. So the JTR killings are not directly related to time or place.
why haven’t these other killers gained the notoriety that Jack did? The answer is in the crime itself. What was different about his crimes? They where unbelievably brutal, gory, inhuman, sensational.
I believe it’s the crime itself along with the veracity of newspaper reporting at the time that makes JTR infamous.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Probably not as infamous, but yeah, still more or less the same amount of notoriety surrounding him depending on the media attention he would've got wherever it was that he hypothetically struck instead.

Though I doubt the case would've been half as interesting without Whitechapel (or London for that matter). ;p

[DVV]

Indeed M&P

that's why "East End photographs and drawings" is and will ever be the best thread.

Amitiés,
David