sexually motivated serial killers

[Pontius2000]

I have questions about this type of killer.

take a sexually motivated serial killer like Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, or Peter Sutcliffe. How do they behave when they are locked up behind prison walls? how do they control themselves?

I have always been led to believe that this type, whether they are psychopaths, sexual deviants, schizophrenics, etc etc are physiologically predisposed to kill, torture, dominate. like it is uncontrollable. so what happens when they're locked up? surely, the uncontrollable urge does not go away.

For example, if you lock up a true acoholic, they will be physically sick and usually have to be hospitalized. a drug addict will also be physically sick until the drugs are out of their system. so what about these killers that are supposedly hardwired to do their deeds? I know that schizophrenics are medicated. but I've never heard of a pill to cure psychopathy. I've never heard of a serial killer say, "well, I used to have no conscience, but this pill suddenly gave me a conscience."

sure, there are killers who are lunatics and quite raving mad. but Ted Bundy was of sound enough mind to represent himself in court and would have passed for a very good attorney.

you could say that since most of these liked to torture and kill women, the urge maybe lessened when they were in an environment with few or no women. but what about Gacy and Dahmer? they killed men. and when they went to prison, they were surrounded by male inmates and male guards. but you never hear of them trying to attack their fellow inmates. in fact, it's usually the opposite.

you have a guy like Sutcliffe, who was so cruel to women. but once in prison, he was constantly assaulted by his male inmates.

I guess it's hard for me to understand because I have no habits or hobbies that I physically cannot stop doing. there is nothing I'm hardwired to do other than normal human actions like eating and sleeping. but if these killers are so hardwired to kill and torture, then why do all the symptoms of their illness seem to disappear once they're locked up? do they just masterbate and fantasize a lot?

[protohistorian]

Hello Pontius, they are heavily medicated and or segregated. It has been estimated that 70% of the "drive" for lack of a better term is cognitive in origin. That is to say it is a matter of how the subject perceives and process reality. That being said, a good deal about brain chemistry is known and the cognitive aspect can be readily reduced by medications. Respectfully Dave

[Pontius2000]

Hello Pontius, they are heavily medicated and or segregated. It has been estimated that 70% of the "drive" for lack of a better term is cognitive in origin. That is to say it is a matter of how the subject perceives and process reality. That being said, a good deal about brain chemistry is known and the cognitive aspect can be readily reduced by medications. Respectfully Dave

Do you really think all of them are medicated? most of them, maybe. I never got the impression that Ted Bundy was medicated. He seemed to be as cunning and callous in court as he was when he was arrested. and he never really expressed any kind of remorse until close to when he was executed. but yet, he never attacked anyone in prison.


but for the most part, I agree with you. which leads to my next question: would you agree that these type killers would NOT stop their actions unless they were locked away or medicated?

[protohistorian]

I am sure Bundy had a diet of pills that were state dictated. If the underlying condition is based in perceptual or cognitive dysfunction it is much more likely to remit as a function of a change in world view and perception. If the underlying condition is largely physiological, then the likelihood goes way down. This is a good question because it is a very active field of research in psychology now. We do not have a hard and fast answer yet. To demonstrate how pliable the mind can be, when I had my stroke, my worldview changed almost immediately, as did a host of behaviors based in my old worldview. Now, many of my perceptions from before the stroke(such as I can remember them), seem childish and moronic. I can personally verify that something like a brain injury can change a great deal, up to and including behaviors. Respectfully Dave

[Barnaby]

Really good question. I don't know the answer. I do know that it is very difficult to treat people with antisocial personality disorder using traditional psychotherapy (many serial killers are antisocial). With respect to medication, drugs surely can be given that will reduce the sex drive (e.g., antidepressants).

The idea, though, that homosexual serial killers like Dahmer would be on sexual overdrive locked up with a bunch of testosterone-fueled men ignores the fact that these types usually are societal rejects who, when not on their own turf, are quite low in the pecking order. In fact, their crimes may in part reflect a need to exert power in their otherwise pathetic lives. That being said, I wouldn't want him as a cellmate

[Pontius2000]

The idea, though, that homosexual serial killers like Dahmer would be on sexual overdrive locked up with a bunch of testosterone-fueled men ignores the fact that these types usually are societal rejects who, when not on their own turf, are quite low in the pecking order. In fact, their crimes may in part reflect a need to exert power in their otherwise pathetic lives. That being said, I wouldn't want him as a cellmate

nah, I wouldn't think a gay serial killer like Dahmer or Gacy would be in "sexual overdrive" or anything. but it's just strange that he turns into the model prisoner with no attempted attacks or anything even though he was caged up with member of the same sex that were his victim pool on the outside. and he does not seem to have been all that segregated from other prisoners since he was murdered by a fellow inmate.


But my real question all along is, does this type of killer just change their behavior without any kind of intervention. would a killer like this just change their behavior and their personality? would being locked up in a prison suddenly change them? and what it all boils down to.....if JtR were not dead or locked up, would he have stopped killing? and if he were locked up, would he not still show some of the symptoms that would implicate him in the murders?

[kensei]

This is just off the top of my head, but I would imagine that prison is such a dramatic change from everything the person has ever known in his life that a radical adjustment must take place in the mind simply because it has to, having no other choice. A process would occur involving acceptance that fulfilling those evil urges is just not going to be possible anymore and there is nothing they can do about it.

That said, some serial killers seem to have channeled their energy into other directions. Gacey produced artwork in prison. And with Bundy, rape and murder were not the only manifestations of his twisted mind. He was at heart a manipulator, and even in prison that is still very possible. I read an interview with him in which he was talking and laughing about having won over the big scary black guys in his cell block by just boldly BS-ing with them, and I remember thinking it must have been the only outlet his sociopathic mind had in that atmosphere for manipulating people and bending them to his will. The fix he'd gotten from dominating women and evading the police had morphed into winning over men who were more powerful and intimidating than himself.

[protohistorian]

It is not entirely accurate to think of sexual killers as a class. They are indeed a class, if one is using behaviors or crimes to define the group. However, within that class many psycho pathologies exist, all with operational characteristics that are different. For example say killer x commits "sexual" murders and killer x also manifests aspd. In no fashion could you expect all sexual killers to manifest symptoms of aspd, similarly all sufferers of aspd will not commit "sexual" crimes. This is one of the chief reasons I prefer to understand the individual psycho pathologies rather than class crimes by characteristics. The problem with my methodology in historical cases however, and this is just as substantial as the matter of classification, is that the detailed information needed to arrive at an accurate understanding of psychopathology, is rarely present in the record. Respectfully Dave

[mariag]

Most serial killers have very vivid and detailed memories of the crimes. They can remember years later what victims were wearing, what they said, the exact locations of body dumps even if the locality has changed dramatically.

I would think that in prison they call upon this faculty and spend a great deal of time remembering and fantasizing about the crimes, having stored up the minute details to get them through the lean times. Like nuts.

[John Wheat]

Was Jack a sexually motivated killer?

[Pcdunn]

Was Jack a sexually motivated killer?

That's the 64,000 pound question, isn't it? They didn't believe so at the time, but modern analysts seem to think so.
Then again, we don't really know Jack's motive, or even who he was...

[John G]

Keppel (2005) believed he was, arguing that "the killer's signature is organized around the sexualized violence committed against his victims." I believe this type of serial killer is usual referred to as a lust murderer.

[Beowulf]

Dahmer...but it's just strange that he turns into the model prisoner

Well, he wasn't EXACTLY the model prisoner:

"Why I killed Jeffrey Dahmer"

http://nypost.com/2015/04/28/meet-the-prisoner-who-murdered-killer-cannibal-jeffrey-dahmer/

[Errata]

Well, he wasn't EXACTLY the model prisoner:

"Why I killed Jeffrey Dahmer"

http://nypost.com/2015/04/28/meet-th...effrey-dahmer/

Scarver's story has some problems. Like no one backing up his claims to Dahmer taunting people (not even other prisoners), and of course none of his disgust with Dahmer explains why he killed Anderson. Because he did kill another guy at the same time. And it doesn't make sense to carry around an article about someone who made no impression and he had no interaction with, as he claimed.

Best case scenario he is confabulating to justify his paranoia, worst case he did it to get famous. And the man is not well, and probably had no business being in a regular prison. And he was handled badly. Not that I think Dahmer was saint in prison, but the schizophrenic who killed him is probably not the best source of information on what Dahmer was like after his capture.

[Barnaby]

That's the 64,000 pound question, isn't it? They didn't believe so at the time, but modern analysts seem to think so.
Then again, we don't really know Jack's motive, or even who he was...

Just wondering on what basis do you think that the authorities did not believe that this was not sexually motivated at the time?