Was JTR a member of the Whitechapel Vigilance Committee?

[Monty]

Monty's way of saying this debate ain't worth his time.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

No, more like Montys way of avoiding endless debate on an unrelated thread.

Monty

[Archaic]

Rev. Barnett & Whitechapel's Response To Ripper Murders

Archaic,
Vigilance committees were not a new thing in 1888, but the Vigilance Committee we're discussing, headed by Joseph Aarons and George Lusk, formed following the Chapman murder.

I realize that you are discussing the Ripper-era WVC.

But I think it's worth pointing out that this particular incarnation of the neighborhood committee was a direct offshoot of the
local civic efforts which had preceded it, and in large part an inspiration for the ones which came afterward, rather than being a completely
new entity.

In fact, Reverend Samuel Barnett, the great social reformer known as "The Saint of Whitechapel",
was also a founding member of the 1888 Whitechapel Vigilance Committee.

This excellent dissertation by Robin Odell, 'Jack the Redeemer', discusses Reverend Barnett as one of the foremost figures in organizing Whitechapel's response to the Ripper Murders.

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/rip-redeemer.html

Best regards, Archaic

[Tom_Wescott]

He was a contributor, but I wouldn't call him a founding member. I think the Star newspaper, more than anything, contributed to the founding of the WVC.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Howard Brown]

Tommy:

In trawling through newspapers regarding the early days of the MEVC, I've yet to find any reference to Canon Barnett & the group being in some sort of alliance....which of course, you and I knew.

Not only that, but the link to Mr. Odell's dissertation doesn't mention him being involved with the formation of the MEVC. He may have been considered the Saint of Whitechapel, but in that dissertation by R.O., a Vigilantee Saint he ain't.

The MEVC was a cadre of businessmen determined to remove the threat posed to their businesses by the Whitechapel Murderer as well as to safeguard the community. Fewer patrons mean faltering businesses....again, which you and I know.

[Archaic]

[QUOTE=Howard Brown;109909
In trawling through newspapers regarding the early days of the MEVC, I've yet to find any reference to Canon Barnett & the group being in some sort of alliance....which of course, you and I knew. [/QUOTE]

Excuse me, but your inability to find a piece of information in the newspapers you searched doesn't mean that Barnett's influence on the formation of Whitechapel's Vigilance Committee isn't mentioned in contemporary books. It is, I listed quite a number of them.

Here is the relevant portion of one of the excerpts I posted previously:

"The Rev. Samuel A. Barnett, Vicar of Whitechapel, now Canon of Westminster, urged upon them the vital importance of having a group of university men who should become local citizens and neighbors in a district from which responsible and resourceful people had entirely disappeared.
This suggestion was immediately adopted...

One of the first things which the Toynbee men did was to organize a vigilance committee to patrol the district at night. This was done on account of a serious outbreak of crime. The patrol was continued for nearly two years.


As I stated before, I came across these quotes in late 19th C. books on Social Reform.
I merely thought it was interesting that Whitechapel has had a longer history of community activism than is usually realized or discussed, and that Barnett was given a great deal of the credit for it by his contemporaries.

Best regards, Archaic

[Howard Brown]

"In fact, Reverend Samuel Barnett, the great social reformer known as "The Saint of Whitechapel",
was also a founding member of the 1888 Whitechapel Vigilance Committee.'
***************

Once again... not true. The Lusk/Aarons Vigilance Committee...the Whitechapel Vigiilance Committee from Mile End... was a separate entity and not affiliated with what Barnett was associated with. They weren't college boys...they were businessmen.

Even the emboldened and underlined segments of your previous post demonstrates that.

[Mike Covell]

I was recently re-reading Paul Harrison's Jack the Ripper- Mystery Solved, in which he claims he was told by a Scotland Yard informer that Joseph Barnett was "One of Lusk's Men."

The statement comes on page 183 of the 1993 paperback edition.

[JTRSickert]

Is there any evidence or reason for supposing that this Rev. Samuel Barnett is related to Joseph Barnett? Or is "Barnett" a pretty common Irish name?

[Suzi]

Re the derivation of Barnett- also a strong Irish connection...http:www.surnamedb.com/surname.aspx?name=Barnett

[Howard Brown]

JT:
Not only is it a surname used by Irish folks, but there are Jews who use the name as well. I know a Jewish man named Barnett.

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Howard and all,

As Howard demonstrated, I think we can safely remove Samuel Barnett from our lines of inquiry.

Mike,

Paul Harrison's book is one of the few from that era that I don't own, namely because of the bad reviews I read. I'd take anything a modern day Scotland Yardman said with a grain of salt. Remember that it was the curator of the Black Museum who told Patricia Cornwell that Sickert was probably the Ripper! Nevertheless, that was a tidbit I'd never heard before regarding Barnett.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

I was recently re-reading Paul Harrison's Jack the Ripper- Mystery Solved, in which he claims he was told by a Scotland Yard informer that Joseph Barnett was "One of Lusk's Men."

The statement comes on page 183 of the 1993 paperback edition.

Mike,

There is debate if this meeting did actually take place.

And Im intrigued with the Leicester connection.

Monty

[Mike Covell]

Hi Monty, yes I did notice some information regarding your hometown and wouldn't be suprised if the meeting was false. The whole meeting in the Blind Beggar pub reads like something out of a fictional detective movie!

[Mike Covell]

Mike,

Paul Harrison's book is one of the few from that era that I don't own, namely because of the bad reviews I read. I'd take anything a modern day Scotland Yardman said with a grain of salt. Remember that it was the curator of the Black Museum who told Patricia Cornwell that Sickert was probably the Ripper! Nevertheless, that was a tidbit I'd never heard before regarding Barnett.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I paid just 50p for it, so I was quite happy with the purchase!

[Suzi]

Yes Tom-
OK remove Samuel from the discussion no probs- but not from the case 'eh!
A seriously interesting couple set in the interesting times of the day!- Not to be dismissed and I reckon they knew every single member of the WVC, where they were and when - if truth be known.
Suz x