Do you think JtR stayed in a common lodging house?

[Pontius2000]

I've recently read 3 books which all bring up the probability that JtR was staying in a lodging house. What do you think? I just can't see it.

If a lodger were to come in during the wee hours of the morning on mornings when JtR murders were discovered, wouldn't that likely raise some suspicion on the lodger?

I agree that JtR's clothes could be relatively clean, but there's still going to be blood and blood stains on his hands after he's had them inside a victim's body. would a lodging house provide him with some sort of means of cleaning himself up?

on 3 occasions, he would've had human organs. of course, he could've dropped these in a street or gutter after the crimes. but there were no reports of "neighborhood child finds uterus on the doorstep". so it's kind of doubtful that he went through the trouble of taking these souvenirs just to throw them away down the street. and I don't think it likely that he was staying in a lodging house with hundreds of other people while he was in possession of human organs.

and, he had a knife that was likely to be at least 6 inches long. if he'd been found with this in a public house, it would've been trouble.

I think these murders were very public. and after committing them, he needed somewhere that was very private. if for no other reason but to masterbate as he relived his crimes.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Pontius

Interesting question. In my view, the dawn attack on Annie Chapman suggests that our man was out all night. From the killer`s P.O.V. finding somewhere quiet to sit out the night would be the safest option. I think most Lodging Houses would be closed by 2am, so the killer couldn`t go there after a murder anyway.

[Suzi]

Very unlikely- but not beyond the realms of possibility that the killer stayed in a common lodging house- he wasn't likely to come in dripping with blood, in top hat and cape with a Gladstone bag seeping entrails after all- More than likely he was a local who shambled in- OK a tad late- but I'm sure that wasn't that noticable- to the 'Ello -----' from the Deputy- or stayed out till the morning- ditto the above conversation......nothing memorable in both cases.

[perrymason]

I think the most probable answer is that he lived in a room he did not have to share with anyone, so unless he paid extra for one of the few "private rooms" in a lodging house, he likely lived alone.

Accommodations like the stranger has in the case of The Batty Street Lodger is perhaps a logical suggestion for digs....but if the killer of Annie, Kate and Mary didnt just discard or feed the organs to his dogs, they would need to be left somewhere....I would think, for his own security, preferably under lock and key. In a lodging house like The Batty Street dwelling the manager of the establishment has a key to get into the room for cleaning. Which is not what I would call a "secure" place for his stolen merchandise.

My personal bet is that he lived to the North of Mitre Square, maybe a 10-15 minute walking distance from the "kill" zone. Thats why he feels secure enough to take the apron piece back to Goulston to leave it there, he will be coming from the North West and as such he would not cross any ongoing investigation routes for either murder.

Best regards all.

[cappuccina]

No, I do not think he lived in a CLH, but I do think he lived locally either with his family, or in a room near his family (where they could check up on him), and knew the area well, and where such places would be.

[Sam Flynn]

I think the most probable answer is that he lived in a room he did not have to share with anyone, so unless he paid extra for one of the few "private rooms" in a lodging house, he likely lived alone.

Actually, Mike, there were private rooms available in some dwellings (e.g. Glasshouse Buildings, near Royal Mint Street; a very short walk from Mitre Square) for about the same price as a bed in a doss-house. The rules on (outward) propriety, keeping one's rooms in good order etc., might have put off and/or ruled out the majority of the East End's slum-dwellers, but those prepared to abide by them could have lived in comparative luxury. Of course, it would have been easier to get into a Crossinghams - there were, I presume, waiting lists to consider then as now - but private accommodation was certainly not beyond the reach of East Enders of rather modest means.

[perrymason]

Actually, Mike, there were private rooms available in some dwellings (e.g. Glasshouse Buildings, near Royal Mint Street; a very short walk from Mitre Square) for about the same price as a bed in a doss-house. The rules on (outward) propriety, keeping one's rooms in good order etc., might have put off and/or ruled out the majority of the East End's slum-dwellers, but those prepared to abide by them could have lived in comparative luxury. Of course, it would have been easier to get into a Crossinghams - there were, I presume, waiting lists to consider then as now - but private accommodation was certainly not beyond the reach of East Enders of rather modest means.

I'm of the mind Sam that for at least some period of time he would be keeping organs in his room,...if he has only one,... but I dont think we need to imagine some wealthy sort without good reason. Any kind of boarding house would have managers with access keys to the rooms. He cant stay with the organs 24/7...the man might have a job. So I think for his peace of mind he would need someplace that he felt sure no-one would enter while he was absent.

Cheers mate

[Garry Wroe]

If a lodger were to come in during the wee hours of the morning on mornings when JtR murders were discovered, wouldn't that likely raise some suspicion on the lodger?

Had the Ripper’s comings and goings been restricted solely to the times of the murders, Pontius, his behaviour might, just might, have inspired a degree of suspicion on the part of a vigilant night deputy. The probability, however, is that he trawled his killing grounds with some regularity, so would have been regarded as a man who kept irregular hours at the best of times. But the reality of low lodging house life was that night deputies were largely indifferent to such matters.

Remember, too, that a steady stream of patrons was coming and going at all hours. Some lodging houses even worked a relay system whereby beds were let to nightshift workers through the day and diurnals during the night. But even under normal circumstances, many East Enders would set out for work at three or four o’clock in the morning, particularly those employed at the docks, Billingsgate or any of the local markets. As such, Jack the Ripper’s night-time excursions would have been anything but remarkable.

I agree that JtR's clothes could be relatively clean, but there's still going to be blood and blood stains on his hands after he's had them inside a victim's body. would a lodging house provide him with some sort of means of cleaning himself up?

The immediate locality contained numerous taps, standpipes and water troughs that would have facilitated the removal of bloodstaining from the killer’s hands, face, knife and clothing had he deemed it necessary. But since lodging houses were notoriously ill-lit after nightfall, it would have been a simple matter for him to have entered the premises and cleaned up in the communal kitchen.

… I don't think it likely that he was staying in a lodging house with hundreds of other people while he was in possession of human organs.

Many lodgers carried offal into the lodging house wrapped in paper or sacking and presumably kept it about their person for fear of theft. For the most part, the body part souvenirs abstracted by the killer could have been wrapped in a handkerchief and secreted in a pocket without attracting any suspicion whatever.

… he had a knife that was likely to be at least 6 inches long. if he'd been found with this in a public house, it would've been trouble.

On the contrary, Pontius. Such was the lawlessness of the late-Victorian East End that weapons (revolvers included) were an everyday fact of life. And for most, the knife was an essential tool used for everything from cutting up bread to repairing a defective boot.

I think these murders were very public. and after committing them, he needed somewhere that was very private. if for no other reason but to masterbate as he relived his crimes.

Many lodging houses provided screened beds which afforded a view of the lodger from the foot of his bed only. Yet again, though, such was the lack of illumination in the doss house that autoerotic activities would have posed little problem.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Archaic]

Many lodging houses provided screened beds which afforded a view of the lodger from the foot of his bed only.

Yet again, though, such was the lack of illumination in the doss house that autoerotic activities would have posed little problem.

Hi, Garry.

Thanks for the incredibly offal image.



Best regards, Archaic

[String]

I think he may have but could he have lived on the street?
If he did he was already in a dreadful state and more gore on him might not have been noticeable. People who live on the street usually have some sort of bags or a way to keep what little belongings they have, a perfect way to hide a knife, and any thing else.

[perrymason]

I think he may have but could he have lived on the street?
If he did he was already in a dreadful state and more gore on him might not have been noticeable. People who live on the street usually have some sort of bags or a way to keep what little belongings they have, a perfect way to hide a knife, and any thing else.

Hi String,

Thats one aspect of the more entrenched views about Jack that I question a lot....why would this man have to be poor and homeless? What in the evidence suggests that the man had no means or no place to call his own?

I suppose its the locations of the murders.....in a ghetto, and the feeling that the man must have lived in that ghetto to know it so well.

The truth is that he may well have been a toff for all we know, and could have lived 10 minute walk or more from the Whitechapel/Spitalfield killing ground.

In fact one might suppose that one of the reasons that he was never caught leaving a crime scene is because he immediately left that specific area afterward. Its one thing to imagine him weaving in and out of alleys dodging patrols, by passing potential witnesses....then slipping back into his lodging house and plunking the organs in a tankard by his bed....and quite another to have him slip off his gloves, place a hanky wrapped package in his coat pocket and stroll away into the night.

But either could be possible based on what we see in the evidence.

Best regards String