Mad Men- Degrees of Separation

[lynn cates]

Vulcan mind meld

Hello Mike. It seems you have the uncanny knack for reading my mind as, perhaps, I yours.

Your epithet:

"a Mad Man amongst Mad Men"

seems appropriate. I resemble that remark.

All the best.
LC

[lynn cates]

odds

Hello Corey. Well, as Mike rightly points out, what about the torso murders? Jack? What about Emma and Martha? Jack? What of Alice and Frances? What are the odds?

The best.
LC

[corey123]

I am

well aware of the other murders going on before and after the "ripper killings".
The C5 were very very similar killings, each a prostitute(or thought to be one) each had their throat cut,and all but one had their abdomens opened and rummaged.

Perhaps Jack wasnt a serial killer at all, maybe and just maybe he wasnt even a he but a they, maybe they were totally unrealted what so ever but how could we prove this?? The C5 have always thought to be the work of one man, and always titled a series of homicides.

You have actually two or more "serial murders" going on in the late 19th century. The "Jack The Ripper" murders(C5) and the "torso killings". Then you also have the other murders not all of them have been related to a series but possibally part of either of the above series. I personally belive all of the C5 to be the work of ONE man, and possibally more murders and or assults were commited by this same man.

But I do know it is possible.

yours truly

[corey123]

Lynn

I got your point with more than one killer, but thanks for the more broadended explenation. If any murder were to be connected to the C5(in my mind) they would have to have One thing in common, the mutilations similar to the 5, the M.O. his approach and throat cut could have changed to fit the situation.

In the case of Martha Tabran she was stabbed 39 time, a fit way to mutilate someone if you ask me. There was an absence of throat severance.
In the case of Francias Coles her throat had been cut and the killer left her to die, not killing her at the scene.
In the case of Alice McKenzie was stabbed twice in the throat and had cuts running down her abdomin.
In the case of Emma I truly belive that to be the work of gangs or group robbers. How she was stabbed and a blunt object incerted into her vagina is nothing that resembles a killer unless you count sexual maniacs who like to in a way torture then rape their victems in the way that she had.

[lynn cates]

Pluto

Hello Corey.

"how could we prove this??"

Well, proof concerns a deduction; this is an induction. So all we can do is keep looking at forensic evidence--what little there is.

"The C5 have always [been] thought to be the work of one man, and always titled a series of homicides."

Sir MM thought so, but there were dissenters--even in 1888.

Permit me to leave you with this thought. Until recently, there were thought to be 9 planets. But finally, Pluto was removed from the canon. See the analogy?

The best.
LC

[lynn cates]

heresy

Hello Corey. Concerning Martha. Lately, I have been thinking a good deal about women's skirts (no, not that, I mean their disarrangement). Given how her skirts were disarranged, she is more likely to be a ripper victim than Liz. (Not too loud mate, that's heretical.)

The best
LC

[Phil Carter]

Hello Corey. Well, as Mike rightly points out, what about the torso murders? Jack? What about Emma and Martha? Jack? What of Alice and Frances? What are the odds?

The best.
LC

Hello all,

Like Mike and Lynn, I have started to see, well, for quite a few years now infact, The possibility of at least 3 different murderers,

Of the canonical 5... possibly 3 different murderers
C1 and C2 same person.
C3 another person.
C4 and C5 a third person.

IF I were to put these murders into any sort of canonical, which I am reluctant to do, C1, C2, C4 and C5... but I am loathe to do so.

C3, Elizabeth Stride, is, for me, TOO different. Too many things, for me, point to something totally unconnected with, especially, C4 and C5.

On top of that we have the other murders. The Torso murders, for example, I believe to have been committed by ONE person.

Martha Tabram seems to me unconnected because of the M.O.

Alice McKenzie and Frances Coles look like a copy-cat of C1 and C2, different murderer.

Emma, another murderer.

So, 7 murderers in all that lot. No, not a mini-series there, EXCEPT for the Torso murders. More likely Jack the Partitoner than Jack the Ripper infact.

I aslo believe that the C4 and C5 murders were connected for a totally different reason, and the Irish Connection here is getting more and more foothold in my thoughts.

Now as regard WHO those 7 murderers were.. well, there is a good possibility that one, or some of the known suspects could well be involved in the murders.
And here I INCLUDE Cutbush, Tumblety, Crickmore/Crickmer/Crickman, Stephenson, Druitt, a Polish Jew, a Belgian and A.N.Other.

No, I don't care who either, so if Eddy was in that lot, then so be it. As of today, he escapes the list of possibles. The Belgian was added after today, as I want to know more about that chap. (See Mike Covell's thread "We have him")

And how to divide the names to the victims?... I have some tentative ideas. But nothing concrete as yet.

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

contagious

Hello Phil. Welcome aboard, mate! The madness is catching.

The best.
LC

[corey123]

Agree to disagree

Ok we all have different opinions on who murdered who so lets agree to disagree. I wont go into detail about Liz because it has been talked about a bit too much. But what I will say about liz and the different knife used, whos to say that "jack" had to use the same type of knife each time?

In the zodiac killings, the murderers weapon of choice varied from a .22 caliber semi-automatic pistol to a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to a 10 to 12 in knife back again to a 9mm semi-automatic pistol.

whats to say that "Jack" changed his weapon slightly for the kill, if you count this then the only difference big enough to note with Stride is she wasnt mutilated.

And I also have a thought stuck in my head about a "Copycat killer", Why would a person want to copycat a killer after such a short time fram? Wouldnt it be more likely that a person who adored a serial killer from the past try to reinact their killing spree?(spelling)

yours truly

[Phil Carter]

Hello Phil. Welcome aboard, mate! The madness is catching.

The best.
LC

Lynn,

Ive been aboard but hiding in a funnel for years. Gets blasted sooty in there too!

best wishes

Phil

[lynn cates]

you 'aven't given us time to hide

Hello Phil. It is a good thing for the iconoclast to hide.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Liz

Hello Corey. The problems with Liz transcend knife used and lack of mutilation.

Why not pop round to her thread and have a go?

The best.
LC

[corey123]

Sure

Why not. Any thread in particular?

[corey123]

Lynn

I have to go for the moment. Can we continue this tomorrow? About stride?

yours truly

[lynn cates]

Stride

Hello Corey. Well, now we are on "Saving Liz Stride."

Tomorrow is a poor day for me. Finals week and all that sort of thing. Perhaps later in the week? I wrap up all but the grading Wednesday. (I hope to go to the library for a bit on Thursday. The Ives chap.)

The best.
LC