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Mad Men- Degrees of Separation

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  • #76
    I didn't know Montague Druitt was bipolar.

    Anyway, this D'onston, he was an alkie? Don't know much about him except he was staying in the hospital. Was that the detox unit? Have you got the goods on him, Corie?

    Roy
    Sink the Bismark

    Comment

    • #77
      records

      I could try and find the census for the hospital of london during 1888-1895 and maybe find the ward and room he stayed in. I dont think I can though because I belive the hospital still has the records.

      yours truly
      Washington Irving:

      "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

      Stratford-on-Avon

      Comment

      • #78
        Hospital

        Within the first 4 and ½ months of the year 1889, RDS went back to London Hospital for a 10 and ½ week ( 73 days ) period for treatment for chloralism.

        He went into the same ward ( Davis ) and was attended to by the same doctor ( Doctor Sutton ) on this occasion. It had only been 144 days since he left in December 7th of the previous year.

        During this stay and in fact only 8 days prior to his departure ( Stephenson was declared “cured” by the attendant-in-charge the second time around) from London Hospital, another murder of a woman,Alice McKenzie, took place in Castle Alley,Whitechapel.

        yours truly
        Washington Irving:

        "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

        Stratford-on-Avon

        Comment

        • #79
          D'Onston

          I found this thread about him.

          Ruling out Stephenson as a suspect - Casebook: Jack the Ripper Forums
          http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=15&highlight=D%27Onston+census
          Washington Irving:

          "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

          Stratford-on-Avon

          Comment

          • #80
            Thank you, Corey, for the link, on D'Onston. Reading through the London Hospital information one is struck by this:

            Both wards were on the 3rd floor, and at nights the gates were locked. The only way in was through the lodge at the front, or for emergancies. (6)

            The gates stand at around 7ft high!!! (7)

            Nuff said

            Roy
            Sink the Bismark

            Comment

            • #81
              Indeed.

              I wonder why there were no killings in October.

              Comment

              • #82
                Reasons

                We can speculate that the gap between september 30th and november 9th were perhaps a 'cool-off' period for jack. Maybe he had phsycotic episodes and lke said previously he was normal 90% of the time.

                Or maybe He was away for that period, perhaps out on a trip of some sort.
                I dout we will ever find out why there was such a gap between the murders.

                My best guess is he went throught a 'cool-down' period befor searching for a new victem.

                yours truly
                Washington Irving:

                "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                Stratford-on-Avon

                Comment

                • #83
                  2 series

                  Hello Corey. Or perhaps prostitute season had closed? (Sorry, I needed a bit of levity.)

                  What are the chances that we are looking at 2 completely different series of murders? (Oops, that kind of talk can get one chastised around here.)

                  The best.
                  LC

                  Comment

                  • #84
                    Series

                    That depends on two things.

                    1) are you saying a different series of murders were performed by another man?
                    2) If you would look at it that way jack would serial kill 4 people then murder one, which isnt classified as a serial murder spree unless it has three or more murders.

                    perhaps, maybe the impulse to kill died and then returned around november.

                    Or maybe he just couldnt find another victem to kill durring that month(highly unlikely)

                    yours truly
                    Washington Irving:

                    "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                    Stratford-on-Avon

                    Comment

                    • #85
                      Jail break

                      Were any of the suspects detained after September 30th and Released or escaped befor November 9th??
                      Washington Irving:

                      "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                      Stratford-on-Avon

                      Comment

                      • #86
                        suggestion

                        Hello Corey.

                        "1) are you saying a different series of murders were performed by another man?"

                        Yup. I am suggesting a killer for Polly and Annie; another for Liz; and, another for Kate and Mary. (But I don't say that very loudly--the iconodules around here may pack me off to Colney Hatch.)

                        The best.
                        LC

                        Comment

                        • #87
                          Wow

                          That is a strong suggestion.
                          Well here are some things that kind of seperate the five.
                          (polly and annie)
                          1)throats cut
                          2)abdomins opened
                          3)killed outdoors
                          (liz)
                          1)throat cut
                          2)NO abdominal mutilations
                          3)killed with a dull round edged knife.
                          4)killed outdoors
                          (Kate and Kelly)
                          1)throats cut
                          2)Extream mutilations both abdominal & facial.
                          3)one killed outdoors
                          4) one killed indoors.

                          It is not very likely that they were seperate murder sprees. But it is possible.

                          Do you belive that they were seperate or are you just suggesting?

                          yours truly
                          Washington Irving:

                          "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                          Stratford-on-Avon

                          Comment

                          • #88
                            shhhhh

                            Hello Corey. Well, right now, I am suggesting. But really, the forensics as well as extraneous circumstances are there.

                            But let's keep our voices down, or we'll be thought mad.

                            The best.
                            LC

                            Comment

                            • #89
                              Ha Ha

                              Well as a suggestion, Who would we call this killer(s) if not Jack The Ripper??

                              First of all we need to ask these questions.

                              1) How common were murders Produced with a cut throat?
                              2) How many murders were commited against prostitutes only?
                              3) I belive the gun had already been in use in london and I think some of the Police Constables carried revolvers(from memory),so how many murders were commited against prostitues, cutting their throats, with a knife?
                              4)Why were all the murders within such a close range of each other?
                              5) whats the chance of there being three killers using almost exactly the same M.O. killing the same class of woman in remotely the same area?
                              6)Whats the chances of the circumstances above happening within such a small range of weeks?

                              yours truly
                              Last edited by corey123; 12-07-2009, 01:07 AM.
                              Washington Irving:

                              "To a homeless man, who has no spot on this wide world which he can truly call his own, there is a momentary feeling of something like independence and territorial consequence, when, after a weary day's travel, he kicks off his boots, thrusts his feet into slippers, and stretches himself before an inn fire. Let the world without go as it may; let kingdoms rise and fall, so long as he has the wherewithal to pay his bills, he is, for the time being, the very monarch of all he surveys. The arm chair in his throne; the poker his sceptre, and the little parlour of some twelve feet square, his undisputed empire. "

                              Stratford-on-Avon

                              Comment

                              • #90
                                Hi corey,

                                What Lynn is pointing out to you is that within the Canonical Group there are murders we can safely assume were committed by one man... who was widely referred to as Jack the Ripper after Oct 1st. There is also a crime which does not carry the Ripper "seal" if you will, and one, that to have been committed by the man suspected of the prior killings must show us that he is losing any grip on sanity or self control that he may have had. The Police themselves thought so about that murder. They also thought it may have been 2 men that were involved.

                                Thats not a "series", nor is it 3 different mini-series murderers. Its 2 or 3 women murdered by one or two men, its one woman murdered by one man, and its a murder with perhaps an "after the fact" accomplice. Which a lookout watching for a safe exit of a killer for example would be...in one explanation.

                                We have, aside from the Canonicals, unsolved attacks and murders of women which were being called the Whitechapel Murders before the Ripper crimes, we have the disappearance of a woman and her torso being found around Oct 2 or 3rd, and we have at least one murder and a Torso the next year that are unsolved crimes, and one was thought to have possibly been committed by the man we are told by many investigators was already caught and in an asylum at the time.

                                There were murder-ERS in Whitechapel and Spitalfield at the same time as Jack the Ripper....its undeniable.

                                So, which crimes we assign to one man becomes a very awkward task.....as the last 121 years of trying to justify the concept of a Canonical Group has shown us.

                                Perhaps we have a Mad Man amongst Mad Men..but we dont have just Jack owning the unsolved murder counts.

                                Best regards

                                Comment

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