Evidence and killings

[sparta68]

I have always been interesting in the whitechapel murders, but only recently started to really think about them. I listen to the podcast and find it very interesting. So like any newcomer that is starting to get a taste for all this I have some basic questions. I will list them in order below.

Q 1: Is there evidence that the same murder weapon was used in the "conical five". Recently and I forget from were, but I heard that the answer to this is no. That atleast one of the women was killed from a rounded blade? Any thoughts to this.

Q 2: Did any of the victims know each other? Unlike in the movie "From Hell" which I really liked. I have heard that all of them did not know each other. Maybe a couple of them did, but not all.

Q 3: Is there any link besides prostitution between the killings?

Q 4: I have heard the term "ritual killings" and "ritually laid out" many times in what little I have seen and heard. Can this apply to any of the victims? If not all why not?

Q 5: One of the most interesting bits I have learned from the podcast is there may have been other victims of Jack. Not murders, but more like practice runs. Also even after Mary Kelly was murdered there were "potential victims". Why is this thought of?

Q 6: Mary Kelly....out of all the murders this one fascinates me. Just from what little I know of the case and killers in general I would almost have to guess that Jack knew her. He may have not know the others, but I feel that he knew Mary on some personal level. Anyone else think this?

Right now I am more interested in the evidence than the 500 suspects that are out there. Is there a book ...a good book....that I can find that just covers the evidence and not some theory on who did it.

[The Good Michael]

Sparta,

I am more interested in the "conical 5" that you mentioned. I remember a comical 5, but let's leave the Bush cabinet out of the conversation, shall we?

Mike

[harry]

Question 6:I am in agreement that Kelly and her killer most likely knew each other.I would not rule out the killer knowing the other victims as well.Not intimately,but enough to know they corresponded to a certain type of women.I would presume any local could name a score or more of the same type ,considering the number that were living in the Whitechapel area,and on any night might expect to chance on one or more being out and about.

[kensei]

There is no evidence that any of the victims knew each other besides perhaps by sight as faces in the crowd, nothing to show that they ever even spoke. There is evidence that more than one weapon was used in the killings- Martha Tabram, a possible Ripper victim just before the canonical five, was judged to have been stabbed with two different blades, and some kind of cleaver may have been used on Mary Kelly in addition to a knife. There are a few non-fatal attacks before Tabram that are thought of as the Ripper possibly getting started, and a few fatal ones after Kelly thought to possibly be his work as well. Research the names Annie Millwood, Ada Wilson, Alice McKenzie and Frances Coles. (Then, with various conspiracy theories, he is rather spuriously linked to murders all over the world for years after.) As for "ritual" behavior, that word must be taken at its most base definition. Any specific behavior a person always does in the exact same way can be said to be "ritualistic." It does not have to mean some elaborately staged occult thing. Slashing throats, Chapman and Eddowes both having their intestines placed on their right shoulders, and the position Mary Kelly was left posed in could, I feel, all be said to be at least somewhat ritualistic.

The best book to read in my opinion (and many others') is "The Complete History of Jack the Ripper" by Philip Sugden. Hope this is of help.

[Sam Flynn]

I am more interested in the "conical 5" that you mentioned.

Personally, I favour the Icosahedral 20.

[johns]

1) I don't think there's any evidence the same knife was used in every murder.
2) Again no evidence they knew each other but I would suspect that some "knew of" each other.
3) Locale, method.
4) I don't think any of them were "ritually" laid out or killed... and no items were laid out. Some of MJK's parts were placed in certain parts of the room but whether that was ritual is uncertain/very debateable. The marks on Eddowes face were deliberate to be sure but ritual?... again debatable.
5) It's thought of mainly because recent murders tell us that killers often start off with smaller crimes than murder then progress... assault, rape, animal killings etc. Also there were various assaults on women leading up to the murders. The Tabram murder in particular may be the beginnings of Jack's series but without the mutilations of later killings.
6) I don't think Jack knew any of them.

Just my 2 cents
John

[perrymason]

Hi Sparta,

Heres my two cents on your questions....

1. There were varying descriptions of a probable size and shape of knife that was used to kill the Canonical Five victims, there is no single consensus on that issue, nor whether the killer would only use one kind.
2.There has never been a proven link but there are suggestive clues that some may have known each other and in these cases, most probably through Public Houses and Lodging Houses like Crossinghams on Dorset...a name that comes up in a few murders. We do know that Pearly Poll from the Tabram murder knew a Ripper victim.
3.If you mean is prostitution the pivotal element in the victims lifestyle that lead to their connection with Jack"...surely its one of the most obvious and probable factors. If he killed strangers.
4. It has not been proven but suggested many times by many theories from Masonic ones to Black Magic ones.
5. Some students of serial criminals and in fact a profile done on the probable killer by an ex FBI profiler suggest he may have committed violent acts and committed crimes prior to killing. Conjecture.
6. By the evidence that we are aware was accepted by the authorities it would seem that Marys killer could well have knocked on her door or window to gain access to her room. It is after all her private home within the confines of a small courtyard that is accessed by a stone tunnel around 20-25 long....so its not like she was on a public street flouting her wares. There is a good probability based on the known evidence that Marys killer was not a stranger to her.

For books, The Complete..... and Ripper A-Z are 2 of the most thorough and theory neutral. My suggestion is to read every one you can get your hands on, but to make up your own mind on what the evidence might mean.

All the best

[kensei]

Sparta, I'd just like to briefly elaborate on the choice of books. Perrymason and I both suggested Sugden's "Complete History of JTR" and he added "Jack the Ripper A to Z," noting that both were for the most part "theory netural." Indeed they are, but just so you know, Sugden's book does rather haltingly settle on George Chapman as a a likely suspect but not until the very end, and the A to Z is- true to the title- an alphabetical encyclopedic work, excellent as a reference but difficult to read from beginning to end as one would a more traditional book.