Was Jack fascinated by past tyrants/psychopaths?

[mattwill]

I was recently looking at the murder dates of the canonical five and a few of the other possible victims for historical or coincidental significance and I found something interesting. Martha Tabrams' murder on Aug. 7 is also the birthday of Elizabeth Bathory (the Countess of Blood). Also, Aug. 31 (Polly Nichols) was the birthday of Caligula. Lastly, in the eerie dept., November 9 (Mary Kelly) was the Birthday of Vlad Tepes. So, does anyone think it's possible that Jack read up on these figures and took a liking to some of their ideas? And no, I'm not saying Bram Stoker was Jack. How ridiculous, a famous author as Jack. Wait... nevermind.

I also have found a possible explanation for the "juwes" but I'll get to that once I do a bit more research. (hint: it has to with a historical figure and the date)

Anyway, I just hope I don't come across as crazy, just curious.

[lynn cates]

twins

Hello. Whose birthday is September 30? Twins, perhaps?

LC

[Barnaby]

September 30, 1631: William Stroughton. American judge at the Salem witch trials. Maybe Jack thought of himself as the final "judge" of these cursed women. Or maybe, perhaps, this is all a coincidence.

[mattwill]

I actually noticed Stroughton as well as the person I was referring to earlier. I also realize all these are probably coincidences, but could also be possible scenarios. That's why I asked if anyone thought was a possible connection. Probable, I don't know. All I know is that I've been interested in this case since I was around four or five years old and I've been visiting this site since I was a freshman in college. I just wanted to add something new to it.

Anyway, (wah, wah, wah) my possible September 30th connection is John Russell, the Duke of Bedford. Not because I think he's a tyrant, I really don't know why Jack would have been influenced by him but I did find something interesting.

From what I understand about him, he was a target once for an anonymous writer who went by the name of Junius. It is also possible that this person took his name from another famous for his political critiques in ancient times by the name of Juvenal. Juwes, anyone?

Okay, so that doesn't prove anything or make total sense, so if anyone can make anything of it let me know.
Thanks (sorry to waste anyones' time if I have done so)

[mattwill]

Sorry, actually, Decimus Iunius Iuvenalis, known in English as Decimus Junius Juvenal, was a Roman poet active in the late 1st and early 2nd century AD, and was the author of the Satires.

I'm not at all together for this, I still have a lot of homework to do if I want to anyone to take me seriously.

[Sam Flynn]

Hello. Whose birthday is September 30? Twins, perhaps?

Castor and Pollux? Sounds about right

[Observer]

Hi Mattwill

I was recently looking at the murder dates of the canonical five and a few of the other possible victims for historical or coincidental significance and I found something interesting. Martha Tabrams' murder on Aug. 7 is also the birthday of Elizabeth Bathory (the Countess of Blood). Also, Aug. 31 (Polly Nichols) was the birthday of Caligula. Lastly, in the eerie dept., November 9 (Mary Kelly) was the Birthday of Vlad Tepes. So, does anyone think it's possible that Jack read up on these figures and took a liking to some of their ideas?

I once read a biography of Marcel Marceau, and spent quite some time afterwards miming my heart out. I became very adept at walking against the wind, coming up against an imaginary glass panel etc. I hope this is of use to you Mat.

all the best

Observer

[Sam Flynn]

I was recently looking at the murder dates of the canonical five and a few of the other possible victims for historical or coincidental significance and I found something interesting. Martha Tabrams' murder on Aug. 7 is also the birthday of Elizabeth Bathory (the Countess of Blood). Also, Aug. 31 (Polly Nichols) was the birthday of Caligula. Lastly, in the eerie dept., November 9 (Mary Kelly) was the Birthday of Vlad Tepes. So, does anyone think it's possible that Jack read up on these figures and took a liking to some of their ideas?

We're talking about a period when a goodly part of the population might not have known for certain their own birthdays, Matt. It's easy enough, in the Communication Age, for us to make these connections, but people didn't have the access we have to books - never mind the internet - back then.

Of those books that were available back in 1888, how many of them would have even dealt with those historical monsters, let alone list something as trivial as their (alleged) birthdays? Bear in mind that interest in Vlad Tepes hangs almost solely on his association with Dracula, and the latter only began to rise to prominence in the Western World's after Bram Stoker's book was published in 1897.

Indeed, a quick Google Books search shows that few, if any, English-language books seem to have mentioned Vlad Tepes until the late 1890s, prior to which there were a few scattered references in academic texts from France, Italy and - surprise! - Romania. None of them - as far as I've been able to find - makes anything other than passing reference to Vlad, and none give his birthday.

In terms of British coverage the name "Vlad Tepes" doesn't appear in the (London) Times at all before 1985, and "Vlad Dracul" made his first appearance in that paper in 1972 - and that, not surprisingly, in an article headed "Prince of Darkness Pulls in Dollars". The next mention comes in 1974, in a Times review of a BBC programme presented by good old Dan Farson, Ripper author and apparently the great nephew of Bram Stoker himself:

"Mr Farson also introduced us to the historical Vlad Dracul, a warlord with a zest for impaling. He took us to Highgate Cemetery for vampire-hunting vandals and he brought us the nasty details of a vampire obsession in Stoke-on-Trent. More and more, however, as if to atone for his great-uncle, he grew preoccupied with mankind's spiritual needs. And when he brought in the parson exorcist to help his thinking, poor Dracula vanished in the general explosion of the modern interest in the occult."

It's those closing words that resonate with me - "the general explosion of the modern interest in the occult". Before the 1970s, it seems - and certainly before 1900 - it's unlikely that too many people in England would have been interested in knowing about Vlad Tepes, assuming they'd even heard of the guy. Even if they had, they'd have been very hard-pressed to find his birthday written down anywhere. The same would almost certainly have applied to Erszebet Bathory - no doubt a somewhat obscure figure in the "exotic" East of Europe, until our modern taste for the prurient, mysterious and trivial took off in the last century.

[lynn cates]

sticky situation

Hello. Although I never:

"became very adept at walking against the wind"

yet I have performed various "other" operations INTO the wind. It was a very sticky situation.

The last time, as I recall, I was privately advocating a suspect as "Jack" and it required a very elaborate placing of the victims to form a certain geometric figure. Live and learn.

LC

[babybird67]

We're talking about a period when a goodly part of the population might not have known for certain their own birthdays, Matt. It's easy enough, in the Communication Age, for us to make these connections, but people didn't have the access we have to books - never mind the internet - back then.

Excellent post Sam. It's so easy to forget what life was like in LVP and to make assumptions based on our own experiences...i always do that! Thanks for reminding us to contextualise.

[jason_c]

I agree with Sam. This was also a period where leisure time for the working population was next to non existant.

[Observer]

Hi Link Eights

Hello. Although I never:

"became very adept at walking against the wind"

yet I have performed various "other" operations INTO the wind. It was a very sticky situation.

The last time, as I recall, I was privately advocating a suspect as "Jack" and it required a very elaborate placing of the victims to form a certain geometric figure. Live and learn.

LC

Eh???? Could you elaborate perhaps? Also I was adressing Mattwill, could there be a Lynnink here?

all the best

Observer

[lynn cates]

lead in

Hello. Thanks. I am fully aware of that. I just thought your line provided a remarkable lead in for what I wished to say. So, for the use, I thank you.

LC

[Observer]

hi Lynn

Your welcome

all the best

Observer

[mattwill]

So, there's absolutely no way anyone from London in 1888 would have been able to get a copy of William Wilkensens' Account of the Principalities of Wallachia and Moldavia with Political Observations Relative to Them (London 1820)? The same book Bram Stoker was able to check out of the library in 1890 and gave most of the info he needed for Dracula. Just wondering. (although it probably doesn't have Vlads birthday, but maybe someone out there has read it and can answer that for sure).