Why Stop At All

[richardnunweek]

Hi Pirate,
Your suggestion is the most plusible explanation , if one puts aside all ones theories, that proberly are a load of twaddle, the simpliest answer is proberly the truth.
I am of the opinion that Maxwells market porter killed Mary Kelly around 9am, whether he was JTR, i cannot say , it points to that however, i appreciate that this goes against all Ripperology, but thats my opinion, was he Schizophrenic? i dont know.
Regards Richard.

[smezenen]

What if Jack was a policeman, who else could be found with a body, and have bloody cloths and bloody hands. She was breathing when I first found her and I tried to help her but to no avail. she expired just seconds before you showed up. I tried to carry her to a doctor. A policeman could say these things and get away with it without much suspicion. He could also make his kills where and when he chose. The exception would of course be Mary Kelly and its my opinion that if she is a Ripper victim then she would have been found dead outdoors had she not invited him into her room. A policeman would be in a good position to observed the areas he hunted his prey in. He would know the police patrol routes and times. So getting to the answer of why he quit well he may have had inside information about the investigation and knew they where getting close to him. He had knew the police and community patrols where increasing to the point he could no longer get away with playing his game his way and he knew he would be caught if he continued. I know its an unsupported opinion but theroies have to start somewhere.

[Jeff Leahy]

And the fact that PC Watkins was a policeman with an unblemished career who most probably had an alibi for the nights of the other murders doesn’t put you off that idea?

Pirate

[smezenen]

And the fact that PC Watkins was a policeman with an unblemished career who most probably had an alibi for the nights of the other murders doesn’t put you off that idea?

Pirate

Why does it have to be Watkins? I didnt mention him at all, in fact I didnt put forth any name. His alibi may clear him but it does not clear the entire force. as far as being put off the idea of him being a policeman I think its just as plausible as him being a doctor, butcher, slaughterhouse worker, midwife, any of these would give the Ripper an excuse to be spattered with blood.

[sdreid]

I am of the opinion that Maxwells market porter killed Mary Kelly around 9am, whether he was JTR, i cannot say , it points to that however, i appreciate that this goes against all Ripperology, but thats my opinion, was he Schizophrenic? i dont know.
Regards Richard.

Ripperology/smipperology, it's a well and good possibility to me.

[jason_c]

Hi jason,

We dont know when he went out, or for how long, or if he went out on any other nights than the ones we are told he likely killed on, if he worked until midnight first.....

The suspect "trawling" around suggests he was looking for opportunity vs locations....the fact that 5 murders he is assumed to have committed were all within 1 sq mile might indicate the general location was important.

If for example the killer is a slaughterhouse man who gets off at midnight in Spitalfield, how much trawling would be needed? 5 minutes....maybe?

Best regards Jason

Perrymason,

We dont know for sure how long it took to find a victim. I believe it was more difficult and time consuming than you suggest. He had to find a lone prostitute and then pick her up without anyone getting a good view of him. All the time keeping an eye out for the police.

His early morning killing of Chapman is a possible indication the he found it harder to find a victim than you suggest.

[The Good Michael]

He wasnt just out on the streets in the morning. The killer was trawling around Whitechapel much of the night.

Depending on his home circumstances, I believe it likely that someone close to JtR had suspiscions of him.

Jason,

Right. This is a point that adds to the crazed Jewish immigrant theory, that people knew, and didn't talk. Also, it may mean he was often unemployed, and had nothing to do during the day but sleep. Someone like this who slept much of the day, would have been difficult to keep track of by family, espevially if he waited until the wee hours to go out, and was back before dawn. I imagine a brother or sister looking in on him before going to bed, and thinking that he was down for the count.

Cheers,

Mike

[perrymason]

Hi Pirate,
Your suggestion is the most plusible explanation , if one puts aside all ones theories, that proberly are a load of twaddle, the simpliest answer is proberly the truth.
I am of the opinion that Maxwells market porter killed Mary Kelly around 9am, whether he was JTR, i cannot say , it points to that however, i appreciate that this goes against all Ripperology, but thats my opinion, was he Schizophrenic? i dont know.
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard,

Im going to be the stick in your craw again my friend, but your time is barely enough time to allow for the state of rigor that was noted by the attending physician.

Rigor onset can be affected by the ambient temperature, the level of physical exertion by the deceased at the moment of death, etc...and it is used carefully in estimating TOD. Rigor onset takes 3-4 hours minimum, usually between 4 to 7 hours, and escalates for another 8-9 hours, peaking at around 12 hours after death, it then gradually decreases over the next 12-24 hours.

The examination started at 2pm. Her remains had not only succumbed to rigor it was increasing during his examination. If she dies between 9 and 10 in the morning there would barely be enough time to allow for onset, let alone an advanced case of Rigor...and the fact that it increased during the exam suggests the remains had progressed by the initial 4-7hr phase of Rigor Mortis and was increasing noticeably towards its peak.

A death at approx 4am satisfies the issues with the deceased's status.

Best regards Richard

[Uncle Jack]

Maybe he didn't stop. There were plenty of Ripper-like murders after Mary Kelly that are usually dismissed as being by Jack by researchers, sometimes too easily dismissed in my opinion.

[perrymason]

Maybe he didn't stop. There were plenty of Ripper-like murders after Mary Kelly that are usually dismissed as being by Jack by researchers, sometimes too easily dismissed in my opinion.

I dont agree with your conclusion Adam, but thats a BINGO on the factual data. I believe other men killed with knives during that period, and were involved in some of the 12 or 14 attacks that the Canonical Group is within. Alice McKenzie is proof that Jack or someone imitating him quite well was still at it the following Summer.

As I said, Mary Kelly isnt Jacks last kill....she is the last victim the police believed was killed by the Whitechapel Murderer.....which was always more than one man, since that term bundles attacks from the Spring right through the Fall. The Ripper became a sub-category after Dear Boss was received, and after 2 unusually cruel murders were almost identically executed...Pollys and Annies.

So clearly, other men killed unfortunates with knives outdoors at night during that same period.

Best regards Adam

[Christine]

It's hard to compare modern killers to Jack because of course every modern killer knows about CCTV and DNA and fingerprints and changes his MO accordingly, but really how many comparable, unsolved modern serial killings are there? He preyed on homeless women, in a very small geographic area, and at fairly predictable time intervals. He killed them outdoors, more or less where he found them. Such impulsive and opportunistic killers generally are caught, and if they aren't caught right away, it's because they have someone waiting at home who washes their shirts for them.


Of course this begs the question of whether or not Jack would have had the mental capacity to modify his MO to make himself an uncatchable killer. My guess is no--even though when we look at his crimes we see someone taking steps to avoid being caught, the fact is that he still took overwhelming and ridiculous risks and probably had very poor judgment about how likely he was to be caught.

So of course the next question is who is washing the shirts, paying the rent on the rooms right in the middle of the crime locations, and possibly finally putting a stop to the murders?

[Sam Flynn]

ISo clearly, other men killed unfortunates with knives outdoors at night during that same period.

Doubtless some non-unfortunates were dispatched in a similar manner, Mike. Thing is, whilst stabbings or cut-throat murders were traditionally comparatively common, eviscerating murders were - and continue to be - extremely rare.

[perrymason]

Doubtless some non-unfortunates were dispatched in a similar manner, Mike. Thing is, whilst stabbings or cut-throat murders were traditionally comparatively common, eviscerating murders were - and continue to be - extremely rare.

Hi Gareth, nice to see you....

I wholeheartedly agree with you, the acts that were perpetrated on Polly, Annie and Kate............and Mary, were by someone who was indeed a Unicorn among Horses in the murder game.

When those kinds of murders ceased, after Alice in 1889, then we may have a mobile killer, or one that goes dormant, or one that changes MO and Objectives dramatically...or one that is dead or locked up as insane.

The question though is prejudicial, it assumes we are dealing with a serial killer who must kill.......but there is another possibility, why wouldnt he just quit if his goal(s) was (were) achieved? What upcoming event or events, or government initiatives could or would be affected by this Fall of Terror?

It didnt scuttle or assist the Balfour Assassination plot...the police broke that one through their investigations....which must have been ongoing that same Fall. It doesnt impact the Parnell Hearings that winter in any great way. There was some Urban Renewal as a result of the attention paid to the areas plight. Warren is removed,... which is likely only partly due to the Ripper cases. But he did piss off a lot of folks in that area, within recent memory. And not a few of his rank and file.

But the sum totals and the changes dont seem to have any relationship to the crimes themselves, do they? So your asking yourself.....if the crimes were committed for some purpose other than a serial murders bloodlust, and there are no local dramatic manifestations that appear as a result of these crimes specifically, what might be the reason for these killings? Or for them to stop suddenly?

Love and Money kills a lot of people, and I dont see the Love angle here. More seriously, like perhaps a Vasiliev might represent if he were the cuplrit, killing them to "save them" because he "loved them".

But I do see piles of new money flowing in an area where many people live in filth on the streets. People in the right occupations and stations in life found a golden egged goose in our "Jacky-boy", some made small fortunes...like newspaper owners for one.

Theres a smaller Hitchcock movie that I really liked call Rope. It takes place in an apartment, and the story is of 2 school chums who kill someone to see what its like and if they can get away with it...based on a lecture they recalled given by their prof, Jimmy Stewart, who appears later in the film.

They were conducting a social experiment, as cold heartless murders. I wonder if some of those killings might be similarly inspired, maybe from a religious perspective.

All the best Sam

[Christine]

Sorry Michael, I don't think it's possible.

While I can believe that a newspaperman might tell himself that such a killing might be good for his political party, or someone might wonder if he were smart enough to get away with such a thing, very few people would actually be able to bring themselves to butcher another human being like that, let alone walk home and bathe and go into work the next day.

The only thing that would motivate such a murder is psychosis. Exactly what was going on in the killer's head is debatable, but ultimately he was out of control, driven, and unable to be rational about what he was doing. And I think it very, very unlikely that there were two psychopathic killers, even if one was a pure copycat.

[Daveshredder]

Theres a smaller Hitchcock movie that I really liked call Rope. It takes place in an apartment, and the story is of 2 school chums who kill someone to see what its like and if they can get away with it...based on a lecture they recalled given by their prof, Jimmy Stewart, who appears later in the film.

Im sure I remember seeing a documentary about a young group of lads from oxford or some other university who really did try that for real?