homosexual serial killers

[sdreid]

I would think probably straight with some adequacy, shyness and/or performance issues.

[Daveshredder]

yes i think Jack killed more than C5. I personally include Martha Tabram as an early attack. I havent really thought about the knife issues.

Impossible "IF" I remember right her murder was proved to be commited by a group of young men

I have been reading through this forum and it just struck me that when ever I try to understand why jack did this stuff I always look at it from a modern day perspective. we generaly accept gay people as the norm now, but back then I think it was illegal, just wondering how many other differeces in lifestyle may have effect his reasoning?

oh i almost forgot lol. I have never heard of a gay murderer killing women, not yet anyway!

[smezenen]

oh i almost forgot lol. I have never heard of a gay murderer killing women, not yet anyway!

Here are 2.
Donald Harvey (i misspelled his name in my other post) calimed to have killed 87 men and women. Also, and maybe he didnt belong on my list of serial killers becouse he is only convicted of one murder but Michael Buelow, who is suspected of killing 17 other men and women.

Another interesting fact here about American serial killers, while the number of heterosexual killers vastly outnumbes the homosexual ones, the list of the top ten modern day American serial killers includes 8 homosexuals.

[babybird67]

Impossible "IF" I remember right her murder was proved to be commited by a group of young men

HI Dave

i think you might be confusing Martha Tabram with Emma Smith here. Emma Smith said she was attacked by a group of men. Martha Tabram was attacked after disappearing with a soldier; she and her acquaintance Pearly Poll had been soliciting and both picked up a soldier, parting ways to do the deed so to speak.

Martha may well have been attacked by two men as she has wounds which came from two different implements, a pen knife and something more like a bayonet, according to medical evidence. However, the killer could have just used two weapons. I think she may have been an early Jack experiment myself.

[babybird67]

Here are 12 convicted serial killers that are all confessed Homosexuals:
Donald Garvey: 37 Murders, John Wayne Gacy: 33 Murders, Patrick Wayne Kearney: 32 Murders, Bruce Davis: 28 murders, Juan Corona: 25 Murders, Jeffrey Dahmer: 17 Murders, Michael C. Buelow suspected of 17 murders convicted of 1, Stephen Kraft: 16 Murders, William Bonin: 14 Murders, and last but certianly not least Dean Corll, Elmer Wayne Henley, and David Owen Brooks were the members of a Texas homosexual torture/murder ring that captured and mutilated 27 young men

The answer to your question in regards to these MODERN day homosexual killers is they killed mostly men and not a single one killed all women. These are modern day killers and attitudes have changed over the years, the moral compass as it where, is pointed almost 180 degrees from where it was in 1888 when it comes to sexual topics. So would a Modern day homosexual serial killer share the same driving blood lust forces as one of Victorian London? Was Jack the exception that proves the rule? Did the Ripper kill men that just didn't get attributed to him because he only felt the need to mutilate the women?

Hi Smezenen

thanks for all the great information...more research for me! And your questions are pertinent too.

Pertinent regarding attitudes towards sexuality having changed so much. Especially the belief that homosexuality may be a form of mental illness. Attitudes are so different it's difficult to compare like with like in using the modern anaologies but i think it is of some use.

My main objection is that if the killer was homosexual, would he really have been interested enough in women to solicit them and would his anger have been so directed at women in blame for his feelings, or more at men who engendered those sexual feelings?

I still don't know but my feeling is Jack was straight, not homosexual.

thanks again

[DarkPassenger]

sorry i don't know enough about this issue...can anyone answer a question or two?

If we accept that Jack was a sexual serial killer, would this rule out, or at least make much less likely, that he might have been a known homosexual?


Are there any modern homosexual serial killers who have targeted women, not men, as their victims?

thanks in anticipation of any help

Serial killers are more often than not driven by sex, or at least by a need for power, which is rooted in sexual development. Therefore sex criminals choose victims as anyone else would choose their sexual partners - and gay men will choose men. Alileen Wornos was the exception that proved the rule - she was a lesbian who killed men, but her motive was basically revenge for the treatment she'd had from men her whole life, they were not sexual killings.

Jack was a heterosexual.

[babybird67]

thank you DP

for this information. It reinforces my feeling that he was indeed a heterosexual.

[Daveshredder]

HI Dave

i think you might be confusing Martha Tabram with Emma Smith here. Emma Smith said she was attacked by a group of men. Martha Tabram was attacked after disappearing with a soldier; she and her acquaintance Pearly Poll had been soliciting and both picked up a soldier, parting ways to do the deed so to speak.

Martha may well have been attacked by two men as she has wounds which came from two different implements, a pen knife and something more like a bayonet, according to medical evidence. However, the killer could have just used two weapons. I think she may have been an early Jack experiment myself.

ahh I thought I might have been confused hence the "IF"
If that is the case then I would say its possible she may have been the first ripper attempt

[Daveshredder]

Here are 2.
Donald Harvey (i misspelled his name in my other post) calimed to have killed 87 men and women. Also, and maybe he didnt belong on my list of serial killers becouse he is only convicted of one murder but Michael Buelow, who is suspected of killing 17 other men and women.

Another interesting fact here about American serial killers, while the number of heterosexual killers vastly outnumbes the homosexual ones, the list of the top ten modern day American serial killers includes 8 homosexuals.

Those offenders killed men as well as women. It is commonly believed that Jack only killed women. Im not saying he did just kill women, but if he killed men as well would they have the same types wounds ?

That is a Interesting fact I didnt know

[DarkPassenger]

It depends upon the motive for the murders. To say that a serial killer murdered men and women must point to his sexuality is not necessarily correct - it may seem a contradiction of what I said before but it's not, because I was talking specifically about sexual serial killers.

For example, some serial killers will target couples and kill the man as well as the woman, but only for convenience sake.

[smezenen]

DarkPassage,
This example demonstrates I believe what you are trying to point out.
Leonard Lake and his friend Eng (I can’t remember his first name right now) lured single women, single men and couples to their house in many different ways. One couple was lured there under the pretense of buying Leonard’s car. Once there the couple was overpowered and restrained the man was then shot in the head. The woman I’m afraid suffered a few days of torture before she was beaten to death. The man was killed quickly and dare I say died easy because his killing was motivated by the need for them to get him out of the way. The woman’s multiple rapes, torture and death was motivated by sex, she was the primary target and therefore suffered a much crueler death.

babybird67,
I also believe jack was probably straight because there just isn’t any evidence to support a claim of homosexuality. As Darkpassage points out serial killers choose their pray because of an attraction or to fill a need. If that need is sexual then a heterosexual will pick someone of the opposite sex that he is attracted to. A homosexual will pick someone of the same sex. (Interesting thought here, I guess a bisexual would choose from both genders).
If the need is for body parts or just the need to kill in general then a man or woman would do the trick.
Rage against the female of the species is my choice for Jacks motivation. I think he developed this rage in his childhood. Maybe had a controlling mother; maybe he had too many mean sisters. Maybe he got yelled at by all of them too many times for leaving the seat up on the toilet or something.

[smezenen]

Those offenders killed men as well as women. It is commonly believed that Jack only killed women. Im not saying he did just kill women, but if he killed men as well would they have the same types wounds ?

let me first say I dont think Jack killed any men, I was only hypothisizing and playing the devils advocate a little.
However if he did kill men also, then the wounds would follow the same pattern as long as the killings where motivated by the same need as the womens killings but if the killing was performed to fulfill a different need the wounds could be entirely different. Take the Lake/Eng example in my post to DarkPassage and babybird. The man was shot and the woman beaten to death. Becouse their killing fufilled two different needs they where killed in different ways.

[babybird67]

hi Smezenen

yes, i think you are right. I cannot conceive of a homosexual Jack...i just cannot see it as plausible when you look at the victims and mutilations...just a gut feeling (no pun intended!).

Your point about methods of killing in cases where men and women have been victims was also very pertinent. Men killed for expediency, women killed for "fun", in the case you quoted.

It made me feel so sad today reading that...i think you get a bit detached from the shock value of murder sometimes reading this site, and the news, but it just hit me like a ten ton truck just now.

[celee]

Alileen Wornos was the exception that proved the rule - she was a lesbian who killed men, but her motive was basically revenge for the treatment she'd had from men her whole life, they were not sexual killings.

Jack was a heterosexual.

Good Point if we do not know the motive for the killings we can not rule out a homosexual. Wornos killed men not the object of her desire. Her motive was basicly revenge. Jack could have been after revenge too.

Back to your question Jen. I feel that presures on homosexuals in 1888 were far greater then they are today. It is okay to be gay today. However, they were considered sexually insane in Tumblety's time. , I mean Jacks. The way a homosexual man views himself today is different then how he would have viewed himself in 1888. Jack may have hatted himself for his homosexuallity and he may have taken his frustrtions out on the unfortunate women of Whitechapel.

Your friend, Brazz

[DarkPassenger]

Good Point if we do not know the motive for the killings we can not rule out a homosexual. Wornos killed men not the object of her desire. Her motive was basicly revenge. Jack could have been after revenge too.

Back to your question Jen. I feel that presures on homosexuals in 1888 were far greater then they are today. It is okay to be gay today. However, they were considered sexually insane in Tumblety's time. , I mean Jacks. The way a homosexual man views himself today is different then how he would have viewed himself in 1888. Jack may have hatted himself for his homosexuallity and he may have taken his frustrtions out on the unfortunate women of Whitechapel.

Your friend, Brazz

That's a pretty baseless theory - why would a gay man "take his frustrations out" on prostitutes? Jack's attacks were clearly carried out with some particular motive in mind and about 99.9999% of serial killers will murder the objects of their sexual desire or at the very least, target people through whom they can act out their fantasies. He targeted prostitutes and mutilated their abdominal area, and breasts in the case of Mary Kelly at least. There's enough of a sexual element there to safely assume that the killer was a heterosexual male.