Why face mutilations on last 2 victims only

[Mitch Rowe]

The way I see it there are only two reasons JTR did what he did. He was either your run of the mill or extra smart or extra lucky common sexual serial killer type. Or he was doing this to display his handiwork for some reason. Or both.
If we had known for sure that there was at least some kind of sexual contact then I think it would be safe to say JTR was the same as every other sexual maniac who preys on the weak.

[Barnaby]

With the thought process of the day that the killer would be imprinted on the retina (?) of the victims, it is interesting that he never went after the eyes.

[Malcolm X]

With the thought process of the day that the killer would be imprinted on the retina (?) of the victims, it is interesting that he never went after the eyes.

yes it's amazing that they weren't damaged with regards to Kelly, this is very odd indeed, it tells me that he didn't slash at her face in a rage... this is quite important what you've said.

i dont see rage at all, i dont see clinical insanity either, i just see a monster.

i thus dont think that he ended up in a loony bin.... the mystery is why did he stop killing as JTR.......or did he leave the U.K/ die/ downgrade etc ?

[Sam Flynn]

yes it's amazing that they weren't damaged with regards to Kelly, this is very odd indeed, it tells me that he didn't slash at her face in a rage...

It tells me that they eyeballs are recessed into their sockets, such that a randomly-slashing knife would tend to pass over them, like a tyre wouldn't leave its tracks at the bottom of a pothole in the road.

Don't forget that Eddowes' eyelids were only cut rather delicately, whilst parts of her face was undoubtedly slashed, albeit not to the extent that Kelly's was.

[Malcolm X]

It tells me that they eyeballs are recessed into their sockets, such that a randomly-slashing knife would tend to pass over them, like a tyre wouldn't leave its tracks at the bottom of a pothole in the road.

Don't forget that Eddowes' eyelids were only cut rather delicately, whilst parts of her face was undoubtedly slashed, albeit not to the extent that Kelly's was.

delicately.......delicately, this is important

as for Kelly, a deep slash to her face means applied pressure, this means the blade could quite easily sink into her eyes.... especially with that many slashes close by, i do understand what you're saying though......but to me it seems that he was avoiding her eyes on purpose and thus in control of his emmotions.

[Sam Flynn]

as for Kelly, a deep slash to her face means applied pressure

Actually, a deep slash doesn't mean applied pressure, but a glancing blow with a very sharp knife

this means the blade could quite easily sink into her eyes...

Not unless the trajectory of the blade happened to take it there and the knife was pointing more-or-less downwards, Mal. Otherwise, it's tyres and potholes.

[Malcolm X]

Actually, a deep slash doesn't mean applied pressure, but a glancing blow with a very sharp knifeNot unless the trajectory of the blade happened to take it there and the knife was pointing more-or-less downwards, Mal. Otherwise, it's tyres and potholes.

flipping heck ....

ok, but that face was so severely cut up that i'm still surprised.......because it does look like he's avoided the eyes. whatever the case, this doesn't tell us much anyway.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

The strength behind the cuttings of both the victims' throats and abdomens indicate at least a bit of anger to me, on top of sheer determination to really get in there good and quick, but could he have been f*cked off with Kate for some reason, slashed her face, then decided he rather liked doing that and fancied another go properly, i.e. resulting in the mess that was Mary's face?

[caz]

Hi All,

Does anyone else see it as an odd coincidence (but presumably a coincidence nonetheless) that the killer chose to have a go at a victim's facial features for the first time, not knowing that a certain prankster was about to find fame for having threatened, just days earlier, to clip the ears off on the next job?

I realise that the killer had a go at Kate's nose and eyes, and the little bit of ear seems to have come off by accident, not design, and fallen into her clothing. But it was dark in that square and certain features would have been quicker and easier than others to attack when the time came - or much trickier to detach and retrieve - than others. Smash and grab could have got him the internal organs, but would he have groped about for a tip of nose (or slice of ear) to take away with him, had he dropped it?

The fact remains that for some reason (even if 'just for jolly') he deliberately and methodically set his sights higher this time, by setting about the face - and I believe that was before he reset his sights lower down the body in a continuation of his last successful job on Annie. He might still have hacked at the face indiscriminately if he'd been on a desert island, or if he couldn't care less whether his handiwork would ever be seen. But would he have bothered nicking those dead eyelids if nobody was going to discover the fact?

If Kate's face was his priority that time, I think he did it immediately after cutting her throat so that if anything or anyone had stopped him doing his pig in the market job on this one, it would still be obvious that this was no ordinary murder but another of the most 'orrid variety.

Love,

Caz
X

[Mascara & Paranoia]

The ear thing is an odd (or eerie) coincidence. At first I thought it was just a small part of it, like the lobe, but looking at the photos of Eddowes' cadaver it looks like the majority of it was sliced off. Or it could just be the angle of the photographs.

[Christine]

He was more interested in abdomens, but the killings, instead of making him feel better, made him angrier and more driven, so with the later killings he took more risks, spent more time, and took the time to act out his anger against women's identities (i.e., their faces).

Kelly must have been something of a risk, because despite being indoors he would have had to interact with her to get inside (unless he broke in, which of course has other issues, like Hutch standing outside), and he spent a lot of time in her room, which also increased the chances of him being caught. But he probably felt a need to change his MO because he came close to being caught the night of the double event.

[Eastender]

I think the greater his desire to mutilate, the more he needs to 'de humanise ' his victims. I think he sees them as nothing more than a collection of organs at his disposal. Their humanity, starts to annoy him.

[perrymason]

I think its interesting that on the last 2 murders the women were last seen in the company of a man for reasons that were not clearly "professional."

Kate had her hand on the mans chest...may mean nothing, but considering she had only been out of jail for 1/2 hour it might not signal an automatic solicitation by her either. She has gone to where we would not expect her to, based on her relationship details by Kelly at the Inquest.

Mary was seen taking a man to her room, and heard to be singing to him off and on for over an hour. This doesnt sound "trick-like" at all.

Facial mutilations very often signal a connection of some sort between victim and prey. And in these cases, both women may have been in the company of men socially when last seen.

Best regards all.

[smezenen]

Just a thought as I read thru here. Maybe when he kills the first 3 they die whith their eyes closed. Then Eddows dies and her eyes are open, Jack sees them open and it unseats him a bit so he cuts her eyelids and thats what starts his face mutilations.

[Mascara & Paranoia]

Kate had her hand on the mans chest...may mean nothing, but considering she had only been out of jail for 1/2 hour it might not signal an automatic solicitation by her either. She has gone to where we would not expect her to, based on her relationship details by Kelly at the Inquest.

I think it's safe to say that Eddowes was soliciting that night. In fact, what you just said indicates that to be the case more so than anything else you may have been hinting at.

Mary was seen taking a man to her room, and heard to be singing to him off and on for over an hour. This doesnt sound "trick-like" at all.

So because she was a prostitute she couldn't have a drinking companion around for a little while before going back to work? Going by that man's having listened to Kelly singing for over an hour, unless he got so sick of her voice by the end of it, I think it's unlikely for him to have been her killer.

Maybe when he kills the first 3 they die whith their eyes closed. Then Eddows dies and her eyes are open, Jack sees them open and it unseats him a bit so he cuts her eyelids and thats what starts his face mutilations.

It's a good theory, except for when you read about Nichol's murder. Her eyes were wide open when her body was discovered, and they were still half open in the morgue, you only have to see her mortuary photo to see that.