Three cases of interruption?

[Monty]

Monty,

When you're in a better mood, please elucidate me as to the point you're trying to make. What I saw Simon say was that Stride was neither killed by Kidney or Jack the Ripper.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

My mood is, as ever, chipper my friend.

OK, I'll type slow for you.

Simon did not say that Stride was neither killed by Kidney or Jack.

This is what Simon said....put your hands on your....no, thats not right, he said,

Liz Stride most likely was killed by an unknown stranger, for there is absolutely no hard evidence to support the notion that her killer was [a] Michael Kidney or [b] the mythical JtR who 45 minutes later struck again in Mitre Square.

Now you may note that I have highlighted the key words here, namely being 'most likely'. He has left his statement open to debate as he is fully aware that we do not know for certain if Strides killer was or was not known to her.

My point is you stated that both Stride and Eddowes killer was a stranger and used that statement as a linking fact. It simply isnt. We do not know for certain if any victims knew their killer. So this link isnt really a link....now if you had used the phrase 'most likely' I wouldnt have been so anal.

I think we should also exclude Polly because she was killed on an open street and not in a court or yard.

Thats an odd statement for someone like you to make. Nichols was found in a yard entrance, as was Eddowes (yard entrances were commonly used by prostitutes).

And Eddowes body was found in a public thoroughfare, as was Nichols. And Stride yards from one.

Monty

[Malcolm X]

disturbed at Stride and Eddowes.........you say Kelly not a Ripper victim...FLIPPING HECK.

i say definitely a ripper victim, it's a more advanced version of Eddowes; simply because he was safe indoors, plus he had much more time!

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Mal. Of course I was kidding about Kelly not being a Ripper victim. I just think the argument is circular. To exclude Stride because she lacked mutilations and wasn't 'uniform' with Chapman and Eddowes, you then must also exclude Kelly because she was certainly not uniform.

Monty,

Nichols was killed on a sidewalk (pavement), facing a street. She was not in a dark corner like Eddowes or in a yard like Stride and Chapman. And thanks for clueing me in on what you and Simon were talking about. I'm with you now.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Monty]

Tom

Whilst Chapman was killed in a private yard, Eddowes crime happend in a public area, like Nichols. Stride was only yards from one and, if I wish to be picky (comletely unlike me, true) one could say a public area due to the fact members regularly traversed that carriageway whilst to-ing and fro-ing the club.

[perrymason]

Hi Mal. To exclude Stride because she lacked mutilations and wasn't 'uniform' with Chapman and Eddowes, you then must also exclude Kelly because she was certainly not uniform.

Tom Wescott

Hi TW,

I personally have stated that the lack of mutilations is but one reason to surmise there may have been another killer at work there....Ill add just one...a witnessed assault on the victim within 10 minutes of her single throat cut feet from that same location.

I dont discount Mary Kelly based on whatever her killer thought he was doing with her remains....but I wouldnt include her include her based only on those damages either...particulalrly when the known evidence that leads up to her death at some point that night has nothing in common with 3 victims who were obtained and dispatched and mutilated almost identically..

Using wounds only to determine a killer is a great way of making errors... in my opinion anyway....as is ignoring evidence that doesnt fit with the serial crimes to that date. Im sure most everyone realizes that what happened to Mary Kelly could have been done by anyone with a knife and a sickness....how many throat slashers can excise a uterus complete? Sure ...Maybe lots with some dumb luck....but very few even attempt to.

By the way, the only "Ripper" thing omitted from Pollys murder... that is found in what I believe to be the next 2 consecutive victims....is take-out. And nothing in Kates murder is inconsistent with Pollys murder...there is just escalation in the latter. And I say that while unsure that Kate even belongs in the "Group".

If only Jack does whats done to Mary, then how could you not include Alice Mckenzie? Point being....killing isnt the issue,..anyone can kill with a knife, anyone can cut a single artery with a slice, and as Alice shows us....other people aside from Jack can kill very much like he does....all thats needed is the impetus to do so... but whats done after the killing in 3 murders I see is consistent and quite unique....and absent in the deaths of C3 and C5 respectively. The killer in Room 13 cuts everything out basically, and leaves an intact version of an organ he has taken perhaps twice in a row....choosing instead to leave that with her breast under her head.

And thats "Ripper" like? Nah...it isnt.

Cheers Tom

[perrymason]

You can call me old fashioned if you like, cause I agree with a very old principle thats applicable here,....if murders are not alike, then without supporting evidence that suggests they are, despite the differences...they more likely werent by one man.

How is Liz Strides death even remotely like Pollys, Annie or Kates? What evidence links the killer of Liz to Kates death?

They were unfortunates and they were killed on the same night...and so the similarity ends. And one of the leading authorities in the world on these cases happens to feel that only 3 seem linked by evidence to his satisfaction, and he has decades of experience in Police work, in London, under his belt as well....so Its not just my opinion at all.

Cheers.

[c.d.]

Hi Michael,

The leading authority whom you site and who apparently is going to remain nameless has a completely different view than you do. He is not sure one way or the other. You are 100% sure. That's quite a difference.

c.d.

[DVV]

?

They were unfortunates and they were killed on the same night...and so the similarity ends.

"Exagérer n'est pas mentir".
Proverbe provençal

[perrymason]

Hi Michael,

The leading authority whom you site and who apparently is going to remain nameless has a completely different view than you do. He is not sure one way or the other. You are 100% sure. That's quite a difference.

c.d.

Hi cd,

Im pretty sure that ensuring privacy and discretion was pointed out as the cause for my reluctance to name someone specifically, I recall Glenn mentioned that last time you insinuated the opinion I quoted was inaccurate or a falsehood.

On my mothers life I will tell you that the post from the individual suggested that he has never been personally satisfied that proof has been offered to link more than 3 victims at that point in his life. Glenn was in on the conversation, Im sure he'll attest to that if you ask him. He may think that less or more is now the case,...I have no idea, and thats his business.

I am not a friend of his but I have been fortunate to exchange a few messages and he has been very friendly, helpful and open. Probably because he likes that I respect his privacy.

Best regards

[perrymason]

"Exagérer n'est pas mentir".
Proverbe provençal

Je parle Francais un petit peu mon frere...if youre asking me incredulously how I could post such a remark, Ill answer that.

Elizabeth Stride known activities leading up to her death do not suggest she was prostituting herself that evening. The tussle with Broadshouldered Man was a result of her resisting being pulled into the street, not into the yard we believe was empty. She has cashous in her hand and flowers on her breast when found dead. She looked as "if lain gently down". She died from a single knife wound to the throat that completely severed one of 2 major arteries....perhaps "as she was falling", as per Blackwell. Her scarf was twisted and nicked by the knife.

Kate Eddowes was seen 9 minutes before being found dead in what could be described as a "pick-up", and the method of attack, subdue, cut the throat so deeply there is almost decapitation and proceed to postmortem cutting....is almost to the letter what we believe was probably the case with Polly and Annie, the two preceding victims that we can almost assuredly link to one killer.

They were unfortunates, and they were murdered on the same night..one on city turf, and one slightly earlier, for the metro police, on private property.

There is no bloodtrail between sites David..there are no witnesses to such an event, and the dissimilarities here are mountainous as compares to the scraps of circumstantial conjecture used to assign her to the "Ripper" UnSub.

Ill stand by that.

Cheers David, all the best.

[DVV]

Hi again Mike,
frankly and unfortunately, I'm too drunk to debate...
Just about the bloodtrail, and from memory, I've always been impressed by the Star account about the man wiping his hands or knife in the streets between the two murder sites...

Amitiés my friend,
David

[perrymason]

Hi again Mike,
frankly and unfortunately, I'm too drunk to debate...
Just about the bloodtrail, and from memory, I've always been impressed by the Star account about the man wiping his hands or knife in the streets between the two murder sites...

Amitiés my friend,
David

Hi David,

I think in Church Street or Church Lane. His hands. The long knife was found later.

Anyway, Salut mon amis....Bon Soir.

[c.d.]

Hi cd,

Im pretty sure that ensuring privacy and discretion was pointed out as the cause for my reluctance to name someone specifically, I recall Glenn mentioned that last time you insinuated the opinion I quoted was inaccurate or a falsehood.

On my mothers life I will tell you that the post from the individual suggested that he has never been personally satisfied that proof has been offered to link more than 3 victims at that point in his life. Glenn was in on the conversation, Im sure he'll attest to that if you ask him. He may think that less or more is now the case,...I have no idea, and thats his business.

I am not a friend of his but I have been fortunate to exchange a few messages and he has been very friendly, helpful and open. Probably because he likes that I respect his privacy.

Best regards

Hi Michael,

Just so the record is clear I have never accused you of deliberately stating a falsehood nor would I have any cause to do so.

As for this particular thread, it is probably best for everybody just to let it go.

c.d.