Practicality or madness?

[Abby Normal]

`They incline to the opinion [...] that the small parts into which the body was cut up were compressed into something small [...] and compressed down in a quantity of carbolic acid'.

If the head was in a compressed and somewhat corroded / decayed state that would match with the description 'A skull with flesh still adhering to it'. I note from that the word 'skull' over 'head' but other than the casebook description of the case, I don't know the original source of this description.

cmon sean
thats obviously just the words the disertation writer used. you can see from jerrys clip the head wasnt stored in acid. and from joshua that type of acid was used more for a disinfectant/ deoderizer.

just admit you screwed up and we move on no big wup!

[seanr]

cmon sean
thats obviously just the words the disertation writer used. you can see from jerrys clip the head wasnt stored in acid. and from joshua that type of acid was used more for a disinfectant/ deoderizer.

just admit you screwed up and we move on no big wup!

With the greatest of respect, the source for the head being stored in acid *is* jerry's clip. Carbolic acid can cause very severe chemical burns, the effect on flesh being compressed in it for a period of time, must surely lead to quite serious corrosion.

[seanr]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/archive/a...4~1884-10-25/2


The original article from the Times, 24th of October 1884. No hair remaining? - the skull (not head in the Times) sounds to have been in a horrific state.

[Abby Normal]

With the greatest of respect, the source for the head being stored in acid *is* jerry's clip. Carbolic acid can cause very severe chemical burns, the effect on flesh being compressed in it for a period of time, must surely lead to quite serious corrosion.

good grief. i give up.

[seanr]

good grief. i give up.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/archive/a...4~1884-10-25/2

[seanr]

There also seems to be some confusion (which I am also guilty of) between carbonic acid and carbolic acid.

Jerry's clip says the parts of the body were stored in carbolic acid. Carbolic acid can indeed cause chemical burns.

Cabonic acid with an n is basically the active component in Coca Cola. One letter, but big difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol

[Abby Normal]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/archive/a...4~1884-10-25/2

thats not the clip we were talking about and you know it. the small clip jerry posted clearly shows that it was small pieces of body parts had the carbolic acid and not the head.

can you seriously not admit you made
a simple mistake???? its no big deal

[Abby Normal]

There also seems to be some confusion (which I am also guilty of) between carbonic acid and carbolic acid.

Jerry's clip says the parts of the body were stored in carbolic acid. Carbolic acid can indeed cause chemical burns.

Cabonic acid with an n is basically the active component in Coca Cola. One letter, but big difference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenol

the only one talking about carbonic acid is you. everyone else including the news clips is talking about carbolic acid.
if you think joshua is mistaken between the two or about the effects of carbolic being being rather weak and probably used as more of deoderant than just argue that. your twisting and confusing responses are just jacking everything up.

[Abby Normal]

Carbolic is only a weak acid, and was used as a disinfectant. Most likely in this case used to cover the smell of decomposition. Note this press report from the site of the Pinchin Street torso;

'“Where was it found?” we asked one of the guards.
“Here. Just where you see the pink dust. It’s carbolic.”
“To cover the blood?”
“Blood – there weren’t no blood. It stunk. Move on, please.”'

hi joshua
so carbolic acid was apparently used on both the tottenham torso and the pinchin torso?!?
interesting.

[jerryd]

Actually, I should mention, the clip I provided does mention carbolic acid but I provided the clip to show what the doctor said about the face. It was later proven to be Chloride of Lime, which is a deodorizer and preservative. She was also proven to have died 4-5 months earlier. Incidentally, the Whitehall torso was thought to have been treated with Condy's Fluid.

[DJA]

Carbolic acid was used by Lister to sterilise surgical instruments and wounds.

[DJA]

Good old Condy's crystals or potassium permanganate would have turned the torso a distinct pink.

[seanr]

thats not the clip we were talking about and you know it. the small clip jerry posted clearly shows that it was small pieces of body parts had the carbolic acid and not the head.

can you seriously not admit you made
a simple mistake???? its no big deal

I will not admit I've made a mistake, I have not. I find this argument extraordinary.

1) Carbolic acid can cause chemical burns. That's a scientific fact.

2) Following from that, it is a perfectly reasonably hypothesis that the effect of storing a human body in carbolic acid and compressing it for some period of time (as Jerry's article states medical opinion was happened in this case) may well be corrosive.

3) You said that the source of the 'A skull with flesh still adhering to it' was the casebook essay. I have now found the original Times article from the 24th of October, 1884 which contains the description. Casebook is not the source of the description of the skull, it is the original article describing the case in the Times.

4) The Times article I have posted and included a link to on the Times archive, states very clearly 'the parcel contained a human skull and that there was flesh adhering to it, but no hair and further there was some kind of lime attached to it' (the bold portions are mine for emphasis). The Times article goes on to mention the arm which had previously been found in Bedford Square and describes the arm as 'having lime upon it for the purpose, apparently, of destroying the flesh'.

5) The Times article provides a contemporary source which describes a skull over a head. It also describes a substance on the skull which was also on the arm. Jerry's article appears to suggest the substance on the arm was later found or thought to be carbolic acid (and not lime).

I feel like I'm putting evidence, actual sources in front of you detailing that I am not mistaken and you are refusing to see it.

I don't even know what exactly I am supposed to be mistaken about.

[seanr]

Actually, I should mention, the clip I provided does mention carbolic acid but I provided the clip to show what the doctor said about the face. It was later proven to be Chloride of Lime, which is a deodorizer and preservative. She was also proven to have died 4-5 months earlier. Incidentally, the Whitehall torso was thought to have been treated with Condy's Fluid.

So, it did turn out to be lime and not carbolic acid. Thank you for the clarification. The Times article does tend to suggest the head or indeed skull, had been left in the same chemical as the other parts of the body.

[Abby Normal]

I will not admit I've made a mistake, I have not. I find this argument extraordinary.

1) Carbolic acid can cause chemical burns. That's a scientific fact.

2) Following from that, it is a perfectly reasonably hypothesis that the effect of storing a human body in carbolic acid and compressing it for some period of time (as Jerry's article states medical opinion was happened in this case) may well be corrosive.

3) You said that the source of the 'A skull with flesh still adhering to it' was the casebook essay. I have now found the original Times article from the 24th of October, 1884 which contains the description. Casebook is not the source of the description of the skull, it is the original article describing the case in the Times.

4) The Times article I have posted and included a link to on the Times archive, states very clearly 'the parcel contained a human skull and that there was flesh adhering to it, but no hair and further there was some kind of lime attached to it' (the bold portions are mine for emphasis). The Times article goes on to mention the arm which had previously been found in Bedford Square and describes the arm as 'having lime upon it for the purpose, apparently, of destroying the flesh'.

5) The Times article provides a contemporary source which describes a skull over a head. It also describes a substance on the skull which was also on the arm. Jerry's article appears to suggest the substance on the arm was later found or thought to be carbolic acid (and not lime).

I feel like I'm putting evidence, actual sources in front of you detailing that I am not mistaken and you are refusing to see it.

I don't even know what exactly I am supposed to be mistaken about.

in post 335 you quoted and responded to jerrys post were he provided the clip that says the acid was on small parts of the body not the head . you were mistaken in saying that article said the acid was on the head. jerry also even pointed out your mistake. not surprisingly you havent responded to that.


please dear god dont make me go back and cut and paste everything.