Antisemitism as a diversionary tactic

Abby Normal · 10-05-2018, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by c.d. View Post

"I think the GSG is simply an anti-semitic statement saying the "Jews won't take responsibility for anything." That simple."

Hello Batman,

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that that is true, it still sounds like a statement made by someone who thought the butcher had his thumb on the scale not what somebody would write who had just killed two women on the same night. I am not saying that it shows that it could not have been written by the killer but that it simply seems very strange if indeed it did come from him.

c.d.

hi CD
serial killers are strange people. anyway whatever we make or don't of it, it obviously made perfect sense to the person who wrote it.

Batman · 10-05-2018, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

Thanks, yes now it rings a bell.

What I have always noticed about this Rip graffiti is that it is quite similar to the Dear Boss letter in handwriting.

For example, the words 'I am' and 'on'.

I wonder if anyone ever tried a formal analysis.

Fisherman · 10-05-2018, 12:51 AM

Originally posted by Wickerman View Post

True, but would you be so assertive that it wasn't there if you were not expected to notice rags in doorways?
Or, would you admit it could have been there?

That is the pertinent question to ask, Jon, so thanks for that!

The very fact that Long did not stand to get criticized for not being able to tell is visible within the wording used by the coroner when Long was asked about the rag:

" (Coroner): Had you been past that spot previously to your discovering the apron?
(Long): I passed about twenty minutes past two o'clock.
(Coroner): Are you able to say whether the apron was there then?
(Long): It was not."

So we can see that the coroner freely allows for Long not having noticed (are you able, can you tell or not?) - just as has been pointed out, there may have been litter all around the place, generally speaking, and so it could be hard to establish on Longs behalf.

But! If the doorway was NOT littered, and if Long had been inside it and checked it at the early occasion only to later find a rag that he knew had not been there before, then he would be able to give the exact type of answer he gave the coroner: Yes I am able to say what applies, and no, the rag was definitely not there on the earlier occasion.

That is what applies here, and any effort to dissolve it must be regarded as a secondary, much less viable bid.

Observer tells Batman that he is welcome to accept Longs bid and ignore the rest of the evidence, and I think that is something that must be challenged for a very simple reason: there is absolutely no evidence putting the rag in the doorway at the earlier occasion. One can of course construct a storyline involving ingredients that speak for the rag logically being there - but it equally applies that one can also construct another storyline where the rag was NOT there for equally logical reasons.
Either of those approaches, however, rest upon conjecture. Longs adamant statement does not, it is the only piece of absolute evidence we have on the matter. And before any other evidence surfaces, it is what we must go by. It should not make us depressed; it is a clue that will fill it�s role in explaining what happened, and such clues are too valuable to throw away carelessly. It tells us that the killer was still around on the streets a significant amount of time after the Mitre Square strike, and just how odd is that? We know that he stayed on the streets after killing Stride (if we accept that he did so, and I for one do), and so we are not dealing with an anxious and nervous person but instead with a confident one, quite able and willing to take on whatever came his way.

Wickerman · 10-04-2018, 06:09 PM

Originally posted by Observer View Post

It wasn't Anti-Semitic it was this

https://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=6988

Thanks, yes now it rings a bell.

Wickerman · 10-04-2018, 06:05 PM

Originally posted by Sam Flynn View Post

As I've said previously, Long was paid to be a police officer, not a litter warden. I wouldn't find it at all surprising if a piece of rag discarded inside a doorway hadn't registered with him the first time round.

True, but would you be so assertive that it wasn't there if you were not expected to notice rags in doorways?
Or, would you admit it could have been there?

c.d. · 10-04-2018, 05:43 PM

"I think the GSG is simply an anti-semitic statement saying the "Jews won't take responsibility for anything." That simple."

Hello Batman,

Even if we assume for the sake of argument that that is true, it still sounds like a statement made by someone who thought the butcher had his thumb on the scale not what somebody would write who had just killed two women on the same night. I am not saying that it shows that it could not have been written by the killer but that it simply seems very strange if indeed it did come from him.

c.d.

Batman · 10-04-2018, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by c.d. View Post

Hello Abby,

But that is the problem. He is simply stating his opinion. It's like an art historian stating what he believes is behind the Mona Lisa's smile or an archeologist speculating as to why Stonehenge was built. The only person who can say what the meaning of the GSG is with absolute certainty is the person who wrote it. All other opinions are speculation.

c.d.

The only one who knows what the Zodiac cryptic messages mean is the Zodiac for at least some of them, but we don't doubt they are from him.

He even did a piece of graffitio himself on the car door of two of his victims.

Ramirez had a thing about drawing pentagons in blood.

Lipstick killer. Have a guess where they got that name from?

However if you think the GSG is confounding... then how about HELTER SKELTER. A beatles song. Yet not. Took a whole book by Bugliosi to explain exactly what it actually meant in Manson's scenario. Yet there it was in blood at a crime scene.

Basically what I am saying is, that they write stuff and sometimes it is gibberish, but we still know they did it.

I think the GSG is simply an anti-semitic statement saying the "Jews won't take responsibility for anything." That simple.

c.d. · 10-04-2018, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

Hi cd
I remember reading an expert on victorian laguage saying it most probably read- the jews dont take the blame for anything.

Hello Abby,

But that is the problem. He is simply stating his opinion. It's like an art historian stating what he believes is behind the Mona Lisa's smile or an archeologist speculating as to why Stonehenge was built. The only person who can say what the meaning of the GSG is with absolute certainty is the person who wrote it. All other opinions are speculation.

c.d.

Batman · 10-04-2018, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by packers stem View Post

Everyone bar Warren felt it was connected
The big questions are ....
What was Halse doing there at 2.20 ?
Any killer could have fled in any direction from Mitre Square yet he was trotting aimlessly up Goulston Street

Right. This is important. I am very interested in Halse overall.

I read in one reference that he corroborated Long's account of nothing being there but I am not sure if it is correct at all so didn't mention it, but now you bring him up, is it the case?

Anyway, it's not this that I read about Halse that makes me interested but the very question packers stem asks.

Abby Normal · 10-04-2018, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by c.d. View Post

"Proponents of the GSG are not making the claim that graffiti that was anti-semitic in nature was all over these Jewish quarters at the time. The burden of proof is on those who think it is just a coincidence to demonstrate that the probability of throwing something down that would land next to anti-semitic graffiti is high."

I would think the burden of proof lies with those who claim the graffiti is anti-semitic in nature. "The Jews are tired of being blamed for things they did not do" is certainly a reasonable interpretation is it not?

Stating that the police at the time believed it to be anti-semitic is not proof seeing as how they did not write it and were only guessing.

And even if it can be shown with absolute certainty that it is anti-semitic it does not confirm that the writer was a gentile. It could have been a ruse.

And finally what the hell does it mean?

c.d.

Hi cd
I remember reading an expert on victorian laguage saying it most probably read- the jews dont take the blame for anything.

Batman · 10-04-2018, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by c.d. View Post

"Proponents of the GSG are not making the claim that graffiti that was anti-semitic in nature was all over these Jewish quarters at the time. The burden of proof is on those who think it is just a coincidence to demonstrate that the probability of throwing something down that would land next to anti-semitic graffiti is high."

I would think the burden of proof lies with those who claim the graffiti is anti-semitic in nature. "The Jews are tired of being blamed for things they did not do" is certainly a reasonable interpretation is it not?

Stating that the police at the time believed it to be anti-semitic is not proof seeing as how they did not write it and were only guessing.

And even if it can be shown with absolute certainty that it is anti-semitic it does not confirm that the writer was a gentile. It could have been a ruse.

And finally what the hell does it mean?

c.d.

I am considering that chalking up something there could well have been a cover for JtR as was he was making his way out of the murder scene. It would have been raining. There is the doorway. If a plain-clothed officer had stopped him he could claim he was sold a lemon and giving a Jews a piece of his mind. That could be one reason why it's jibberish because it's only semi-planned. He would have to look the part also to get away with it.

I think even GSG doubters believe it is anti-semitic. That there was lots of that and therefore a random chance event.

I go with the idea he wasn't a Jew and was playing up the Jewish hysteria. How would a Jew even be able to move alone like that at night? Lewende is in a group of several men.

packers stem · 10-04-2018, 04:04 PM

Everyone bar Warren felt it was connected
The big questions are ....
What was Halse doing there at 2.20 ?
Any killer could have fled in any direction from Mitre Square yet he was trotting aimlessly up Goulston Street

Why did Long pick up half an apron with blood on it, which could just as easily have been a discarded sanitary item ,and leg it to the station if he wasn't convinced immediately of the importance of the message

just how big was the writing
3/4 inch capitals makes the rest unbelievably small to be written in chalk on a wall

c.d. · 10-04-2018, 03:46 PM

"Proponents of the GSG are not making the claim that graffiti that was anti-semitic in nature was all over these Jewish quarters at the time. The burden of proof is on those who think it is just a coincidence to demonstrate that the probability of throwing something down that would land next to anti-semitic graffiti is high."

I would think the burden of proof lies with those who claim the graffiti is anti-semitic in nature. "The Jews are tired of being blamed for things they did not do" is certainly a reasonable interpretation is it not?

Stating that the police at the time believed it to be anti-semitic is not proof seeing as how they did not write it and were only guessing.

And even if it can be shown with absolute certainty that it is anti-semitic it does not confirm that the writer was a gentile. It could have been a ruse.

And finally what the hell does it mean?

c.d.