Antisemitism as a diversionary tactic

[Batman]

FACTS, that's all. What are the facts that support the idea that Jack himself might have been using an "antisemitism ploy" in respect of the Nichols, Chapman and Kelly murders?

We also need to bear in mind the facts in respect to the Stride and Eddowes murders, for that matter. Facts like the density and distribution of the Jewish population, the actual disposition of Eddowes' body in relation to the synagogue - those kinds of things.

Why shouldn't we? Like I said, we're dealing with the real world, not "Columbo by Numbers".

Sorry but that's circular to say your criteria for evidence are facts.

A fact is established with evidence. It is the evidence that makes it a fact (or not). This is why I am asking what is your criteria for evidence. The criteria that gives you facts to accept and what to reject.

We have provided the evidence which is why we are forwarding the possibility that this is a fact of the matter. That anti-semitism was involved and likely used a cover by JtR. You have claimed that this evidence is all coincidental. Like ALL of it. So obviously you reject anti-semitism in close proximity to a ripper crime, be it in writing, vocalized or locational. You don't allow for these types of deductions.

So what would you allow as evidence of anti-Semitism to know it was a fact?

I think you believe the claim isn't falsifiable from the start. That there is no evidence that could exist to possibly prove such a thing.

Which is fine, but then your criteria for evidence must be so strong that I can only imagine you accepting medical evidence, IF even that. Do you accept the medical evidence?

[Sam Flynn]

I think you don't have any actual objective criteria to accept or reject evidence.

I've got criteria alright. Factual evidence I accept; speculation is entirely open to challenge.

[Batman]

Excellent, Batman, thank you!

What you've left out, though is the slaughterman aspect.

Yeah, that's the other one. It must have read to people at the time, especially after Chapman, that JtR was butchering women like he preparing Kosher foods by shechita. Jews certainly couldn't have missed that one.

[Sam Flynn]

I don't know what your criteria for evidence is, yet. Bending and stretching is subjective. What do you think would be irrefutable evidence for the anti-semitic association here exactly?

FACTS, that's all. What are the facts that support the idea that Jack himself might have been using an "antisemitism ploy" in respect of the Nichols, Chapman and Kelly murders?

We also need to bear in mind the facts in respect to the Stride and Eddowes murders, for that matter. Facts like the density and distribution of the Jewish population, the actual disposition of Eddowes' body in relation to the synagogue - those kinds of things.

Also am I only to also believe you only accept evidence that is irrefutable in general?

Why shouldn't we? Like I said, we're dealing with the real world, not "Columbo by Numbers".

[Batman]

Maybe so, but there is absolutely zero evidence that an "antisemtism ploy" manifested itself on any night other than that of the Double Event, and even that can be disputed for a number of reasons.

I think you don't have any actual objective criteria to accept or reject evidence. It sounds to me like you are subjectively deciding what to accept or not based on how you feel about something.

I am thinking this is because the global skepticism and evidence requirements to say that there is no connection here, will be dropped by yourself at other times, concerning other evidence.

Because if I held your position, I would not even be able to make an inference or a deduction. Coincidences would be accepted all the time. Would you even go so far as to reject the medical evidence that linked the murders? Do you accept a serial killer was on the loose in Whitechapel in 1888?

[MrBarnett]

Yes, but that's other people suspecting "Johnny Foreigner", which is a very common thing to do. That's not the killer at work.

Indeed, but if you were the killer and you were a slaughterman, you might have been a little concerned when Johnny Foreigner was let off the hook and your group was put back on it. You might think to yourself 'How can I (we) get the focus back on old JF?'

[Sam Flynn]

There is a whole history of criminology with perps making various attempts to throw off the police with red herrings and also to go along with a public perception in order to cover up who they actually are.

Maybe so, but there is absolutely zero evidence that an "antisemtism ploy" manifested itself on any night other than that of the Double Event, and even that can be disputed for a number of reasons.

[Batman]

With enough bending and stretching, just about anything can be made to fit into a glove.And I suppose that the spout of the kettle was meant to symbolise the stereotypical long nose of the Jew?

Anything but over-generalised speculation and unsubstantiated or incorrect assertions will suit me fine.

I don't know what your criteria for evidence is, yet. Bending and stretching is subjective. What do you think would be irrefutable evidence for the anti-semitic association here exactly? Also am I only to also believe you only accept evidence that is irrefutable in general?

[MrBarnett]

It's still a synagogue, and it was still a hundred metres around the corner from where Eddowes was found. Speaking of proximity, has anyone explored the possibility that the killer had a downer on Kearley and Tonge? The body was a fair bit closer to that building than it was to the synagogue.

Was that area the most Warehousey in the country? Where the first ever warehouse was built and considered the centre of the warehousemen's world?

[Sam Flynn]

What would these be? What would you class as irrefutable here exactly?

Anything but over-generalised speculation and unsubstantiated or incorrect assertions will suit me fine.

Am I only to also believe you only accept evidence that is irrefutable in general?

Why shouldn't we? This is the real world we're dealing with, not "Columbo by Numbers".

[Batman]

Red herrings

Yes, but that's other people suspecting "Johnny Foreigner", which is a very common thing to do. That's not the killer at work.

There is a whole history of criminology with perps making various attempts to throw off the police with red herrings and also to go along with a public perception in order to cover up who they actually are. This is because many of these serial killers are actively monitoring the investigation through the press.

Would you like examples?

[MrBarnett]

Yeah, it is even chronologically explainable and fits like a glove.

1. Nichols is murdered. No prior Jewish Serial Killer connotations. Some association with gangs and therefore gentiles.
2. Leather Apron becomes a public Jewish suspect due to unfortunates complaining about him.
3. This is exploited to murder Chapman. People are looking for a Jew, not a gentile.
4. Follwing Chapman's murder, Leather Apron is exonerated by way of a PC witness, the best witness he could possibly have.
5. Therefore the Jewish association with JtR is no longer valid.
6. Strides is murdered next to a Jewish club with the anti-semitic remark LIPSKI shouted out during an attack on what looks to be Stride.
7. Eddowes is murdered next to the most significant synagogue in Mitre Sq.
8. Up the road her bloody apron piece is dumped with anti-semitic graffiti written above it (or at least graffiti sure to incite anti-Semitism associations with JtR, again.
9. Hutchenson sees a man who is dressed up to the nines and of Jewish appearance before MJK is murdered.
10. A bundle of clothes has been burned in Kelly's fire to the point that the spout on the kettle appears to have been melted off.

There is no problem being skeptical of an association, but the thing about skepticism is that the general criteria needs to be used through the entire case. If one requires forensic level evidence, then there is little they can accept about this case except what the doctors said about it and nobody else, lol.

Excellent, Batman, thank you!

What you've left out, though is the slaughterman aspect.

[Sam Flynn]

Yeah, it is even chronologically explainable and fits like a glove.

With enough bending and stretching, just about anything can be made to fit into a glove.

A bundle of clothes has been burned in Kelly's fire to the point that the spout on the kettle appears to have been melted off.

And I suppose that the spout of the kettle was meant to symbolise the stereotypical long nose of the Jew?

[Sam Flynn]

For a while, a Jewish suspect was flavour of the month - until the Leather Apron debacle made the press and the police look somewhat foolish. Then, according to numerous reports, the 'slaughterman theory' was revived.

Yes, but that's other people suspecting "Johnny Foreigner", which is a very common thing to do. That's not the killer at work.

[Batman]

For a while, a Jewish suspect was flavour of the month - until the Leather Apron debacle made the press and the police look somewhat foolish. Then, according to numerous reports, the 'slaughterman theory' was revived. Shortly after that came the double event with, it seems to me at least, it's attempt to refocus attention on a Jewish suspect.

Yeah, it is even chronologically explainable and fits like a glove.

1. Nichols is murdered. No prior Jewish Serial Killer connotations. Some association with gangs and therefore gentiles.
2. Leather Apron becomes a public Jewish suspect due to unfortunates complaining about him.
3. This is exploited to murder Chapman. People are looking for a Jew, not a gentile.
4. Follwing Chapman's murder, Leather Apron is exonerated by way of a PC witness, the best witness he could possibly have.
5. Therefore the Jewish association with JtR is no longer valid.
6. Strides is murdered next to a Jewish club with the anti-semitic remark LIPSKI shouted out during an attack on what looks to be Stride.
7. Eddowes is murdered next to the most significant synagogue in Mitre Sq.
8. Up the road her bloody apron piece is dumped with anti-semitic graffiti written above it (or at least graffiti sure to incite anti-Semitism associations with JtR, again.
9. Hutchenson sees a man who is dressed up to the nines and of Jewish appearance before MJK is murdered.
10. A bundle of clothes has been burned in Kelly's fire to the point that the spout on the kettle appears to have been melted off.

There is no problem being skeptical of an association, but the thing about skepticism is that the general criteria needs to be used through the entire case. If one requires forensic level evidence, then there is little they can accept about this case except what the doctors said about it and nobody else, lol.